Jack Johnson vs. Jeffries in 1905

I'm quite certain he was shot as a fighter and may have even been beaten by lesser opponents at that stage but the way people are talking it's as if he stepped into the ring as the 300 pound tub of lard that he was previous to his training camp.

Obviously it takes some form of physical conditioning to get in the shape he was even if it was only for show. As for claims that Jeffries sparred with nobodies, he used to spar with his brother even in his prime.

 

there is a big differnce between 5 years off and a couple years off and an even bigger one between time off when you stay in shape and when you dont.

In about1909 Corbett wanted a Johnson fight. A jeffries corbett fight over 10 rounds at this time would have been interesting.

 

I rate the Jackson win better than most, but it is given (and rightly so) not much more than zero and certainly a zero in relation to a prime vs prime.

Fitz hadnt fought since Koing the no 1 and 2 conender but was still in shape and stll the best around. Years after this loss he would be in competitive fights with Gardner, o Brien and even Burns. He was a good fighter and the best available.

Corbett was nowhwhere near as far gone as Jeffries as evidenced by his performance. He was proven to be a decent contender still. I agree a prime matchup might have been interesing.

I do think though that johnson does deserve credit for Jeffries. I personally doubt many,if any, other fighters of the tie would have beaten Jeffries, even if he was shot.

 

Here's Smith's observations. And unlike the esteemed posters on this board, he was there...

"if that fight had come off in SF, I'll tell you something, that fight Jeffries would have won. He laid off too long. He had a saloon down there in LA, and for years he didn't have a glove on. Johnson was fighting here, there, and he was in fine condition. Jeffries was all washed up. If that fight would have come off in SF, it was in the bag for Jeffries to win...


They moved it to Reno, NV. Johnson drove out to Jeffries' place. The night before the fight Johnson says, "No, listen, Mr. Jeffries. We're not in California. Everybody for themselves. The best man wins." Jeffries didn't think he could win on the level. He thought it was all fixed... he didn't sleep all night, Jeffries. He wasn't trained for it. He thought it was bagged."

OK, I am taking this statement and the many like them that give Jeffries as having a nervous breakdown the day of the fight, and the many, many rumors of a fix being offered over observations of photos by internet posters 100 years later.

And this is not an apology for Jeffries. I don't think prime for prime he could beat Johnson, tho in 1904 or 1905 I think he could pull it off.

 

Ali looked pretty good from a cosmetic standpoint as well ...

http://www.freewebs.com/1bru1/classicSports/pix/boxing80AliHolmes.jpg

 

No one is saying he did not lose weight and look pretty good from certain angles. The debate is how close to his physical prime he was in for the Johnson bout and the indisputable answer, jokers aside, is nowhere near.

 

In 1909 Johnson would have severely embarrassed Corbett, who would have been 43,Corbett was completely washed up in 1903, 6 years earlier. Personally, I think Johnson would beat Corbett fairly comfortably ,prime for prime.
Both Corbett and Fitz were older than Jeffries was, when he met Johnson .Fitz was all but 40 years old.Corbett nearly 37. Jeffries was 35 ,two years older than Johnson.
Going into the second fight with Jeffries ,Corbett had four rounds of ring combat in three years ,and that in what was widely believed to have been a fake fight.
In the two years prior to his second fight with Jeffries the 39 years old Fitz had two rounds of action under his belt.

 

1. BY all accounts Jeffries trained wrong. He concentrated on losing weight. He had no tune ups. He had nominal sparring. What he did in his prime is irrelevant . He had to make up for 72 months of inactivity. His body looked good as did Ali's prior to the Holmes fight. He had no timing, speed, reflexes and stamina.

2. Leonard is one of the rarest exceptions and to use him as a reference point is a bad bet.

3. Jeffries always had mixed feelings about the bout. He did not want it. He was convinced to do it after a huge national campaign. In addition there are many reports he thought the fix was in prior to the fight being moved from Cal to Reno ... his highly documented behavior in the days leading up to the fight tells a ton.

 

Would you think 1909 Corbett had a beetter chance against jeffries than he did when they actually fought?

 

i mentioned Jackson. Ask mcvey about Jacksons condition if you wantto assign credit to that it is your business he was worse than holmes or berbick ali

 

NO. Corbett had no legs in their 1903 fight, in 1909 his punch resistance /footwork, would have been negligible even a sloppy Jeffries would have ko'd him.

I would pick a 275lbs Jeffries to ko a 43 years old Corbett.
Power is the last thing to go.