Jack Johnson vs. Jeffries in 1905

Lets address your rebuttal.

Show me any account of Jeffries defences that mentions him throwing challengers around like rag dolls.
Armstrong held his own quite well with Jeffries,and,at 187lbs he was conceding 25lbs to the 212 lbs Jeffries. Sharkey bulled into Jeffries all night and in the opinion of many observers deserved a draw . The verdict was that it was only Jeffries "greater science that gave him the nod". Sharkey was conceding 6 inches in height and 22lbs to Jeffries. Goddard,apart from being 40 years old, was a big light heavy, I very much doubt he was anywhere near the 194lbs he is credited with for that fight a few months later he was 177lbs and he was usually in the high 170's ,low `180's. he also had not won any of his last 3 fights.
Ruhlin backpedalled all the fight ,there was no in close wrestling , he retired between rounds, he is the only 200 pound man Jeffries fought as champ.
Munroe was a joke ,the fight was a travesty.Jeffries lost money on the deal and so he should have.
Choynski was 63lbs lighter than Jeffries, any reports of Jeffries throwing him around?
Fitz's and Choynski's hitting power ,and Jeffries resistance to it, have ZERO to do with his strength. Punch resistance DOES NOT EQUAL STRENGTH.

Fighters with great punch resistance include Joey Maxim, and Billy Graham,
neither muscular , or known for strength.

No one says Johnson had terrific strength, it is people like your self who are stating Jeffries had it based on fairy tale unsubstantiated stories.

Johnson had numerous reporters stating he manhandled his opponents.

JEFFRIES DID NOT,he often adopted the passive countering role in his fights.

I have suggested that Johnson may have been Jeffries equal/near equal in strength ,and this might account for Jeffries failure to win any of the early rounds ,when you would logically have supposed he would have his best chance of asserting himself.

If you cannot take this on board it is you who is blurred ,not the arguments.

Now.get busy and find some proof to substantiate your claim that Jeffries threw ANY of his opponents around.
I await your return with bated breath.

P.S. Thank you for your wonderful ,but meaningless reply.:good

 

I am certain that Jeffries was exceptionaly strong.

There is a picture of him ballancing his brother on one hand and Tommy Ryan on another.

It is prety reliably documented that he lifted a 500lb steer on to the back of a truck.

 

Can you provide pictures of either, or is this second- hand hear say? Would Jeffries be any stronger than any other trained athlete of 218lbs do you think?

 

The picture of him ballancing his brother and Ryan on seperate hands is in the Pollack biography. I will try to find it online.

The story about the steer is supported bay a contemporary newspaper account.

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If that is the magazine it is not a contemporary newspaper, it is what was popularly called in the US, a dime novel.
And as such a less than reliable source, and that is being diplomatically kind.
There are many variations of the lifting story,in Sullivan's case it was a tram car lifted back onto the rails I have read that Jeffries lifted an overturned car back onto its wheels. I believe neither.

Jack Kofoed ,who wrote this blurb was born in 1896 he died in 1976 at 85, he was 8 years old when Jeffries retired.
Let me ask you this seriously ,do you personally believe that Jeffries lifted a 500lbs steer onto a truck?

 

Read Adam's 688 page book on Jeffries, filled with first hand accounts and newspaper coverage. It is packed with statements backing up my claims of Jeffries strength. It is a perfect resource to silence those like yourself who feel the need to build up their own favorites by revising the history of their opponents. While you're at it read Hart as well and you will see how the mighyt Johnson was not able to use his exceptional strength against a 5'11" , 190 pound man ... seems Jack excelled against middleweights and old men ... and he weighted the same 192 or so as he did in his prime v.s. Burns.

 

It's not exactly a steer but it shows he did carry some farm animals around:

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Jeffries beginning his training camp with his old fellows Joe Choynski, Jim Corbett & Bob Armstrong. The way Choynski was looking here it was he who should have been planning the comeback.

 

So I have to read Adam's book because you cannot provide either a cogent argument , nor any evidence to back up your claims?
Not one single newspaper cutting that demonstrates how Jeffries manhandled an opponent?
Those like myself ? You mean those who require proof to back up statements ,made by those like your self? Do you think Johnson was prime when he fought Hart?
Do you think this man below ,is the same as the guy below in the other picture
? Who do you think was the bigger man in the Hart /Johnson fight?
No, don't rush to the book shelf ,use your eyes
.

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A year after fighting Hart, Johnson only scaled 185lbs when he fought Langford.

Johnson excelled against middleweights and old men? The average weight of Johnson's challengers was 202lbs, that is 2 lbs more than anyone Jeffries ever fought,until he came back against Johnson.

Compare it to the average weight of Jeffries challengers of 184lbs.

The average age of Johnson's challengers was 24.
Want to look up the average age of Jeffries challengers?

I think you are getting Johnson ,and Jeffries mixed up.atsch.
I don't feel the need to build up my favourites at all ,and,in any case they are Dempsey,Ali and Louis among the heavies, Johnson bores me.

You keep ascribing motives to me that I don't have ,I think you are confusing me with your fan club president.Mr Mendozy

You've now made it official ,you are a paid up member of the Jeffries fan club, well you have company, maybe if this is the best argument you can muster you deserve each other.Nighty night.:hi:

 

You're right its not exactly a steer, I think I might manage that calf and I'm nearly 63.

 

It's not exactly a feat of strength even compared to this:

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The only picture I could find of Jeffries carrying anything around though.

 

Even as a teenager, Jeffries was known for having a great deal of raw strength.

One day, while working at the Punta oil wells, Jeff and his fellow workers were putting up a big tank, which required them to lift and set massive 800-900-pound plates. A big derrick made up of a mast sixty-feet long and twelve by twelve inches square, supporting a boom of the same size, was used to lift the plates into position. Unfortunately, one of the iron pegs holding the ropes came out of the ground, and the mast and boom fell on one of Jeff’s co-workers, pinning and almost killing him. Jeff quickly sprung into action, lifted the heavy timbers off of his co-worker and threw them to the side, saving his life.

To their surprise, afterward, it required eight men, including Jeffries, to move the timbers one at a time. But in the moment, when it required unexplainable strength, Jeff was able to move them off of the man in peril. Everyone was amazed at what James had done. His boss, Mr. Smalley, stared at him in awe. Jeff recalled, “I felt embarrassed, for even as a boy I never did like to be stared at as a freak – a thing I’ve never gotten over.” Mr. Smalley said, “I’ve known some strong men in my time, but none that could do what you did. Some of them were as big as you, so it isn’t just the muscle. … It’s superhuman. … I don’t understand it.” Later on, Jeff would often hear Mr. Smalley tell the story to people visiting the camp, pointing out the massive mast and boom, and bringing them to look at Jeffries.

From In the Ring With James J. Jeffries, page 10. Citing My Life and Battles at 14-15.

On August 4, 1904, Jeff picked up a 510-pound steer without any apparent effort and placed it into a wagon. The weight of the animal was taken after it was cut up and placed onto a scale.

From In the Ring With James J. Jeffries, page 641. citing San Francisco Call, August 5, 7, 1904.