Looking back on Bute's illness pre-Andrade I...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by drozzy, Oct 28, 2011.


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  1. Badlok

    Badlok Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    continue ? the fight was over
     
    Badlok, Oct 28, 2011
    Badlok, Oct 28, 2011
    #31
  2. laffie

    laffie Montreal Full Member

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    Jan 5, 2008

    I guess you don't know the rules. Instead of trying to learn them, you just make yourself look stupid to anyone serious about the sport.
     
    laffie, Oct 28, 2011
    laffie, Oct 28, 2011
    #32
  3. MJK

    MJK Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Oct 17, 2009
    Hey, you dont buy it, its your right. A lot of fighters got injured or postponed fights for good or bad reasons. Some may be true others not. But, the facts are, he beat Andrade in the first fight even if with luck. He choose to give Andrade a rematch. He might have been ill or he might have had a bad night, but he gave the rematch and pass the test with a A+. End of story.

    I think drozy wanted to give some people the "official" story so that people will not think that Bute is weak against pressure fighter.

    But since you dont buy it, you should bet lot of money on Johnson and see what will happen.
     
    MJK, Oct 28, 2011
    MJK, Oct 28, 2011
    #33
  4. laffie

    laffie Montreal Full Member

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    As soon as his gloves were off the mat, the fight was over. Read the rules or shut up.
     
    laffie, Oct 28, 2011
    laffie, Oct 28, 2011
    #34
  5. jeffjoiner

    jeffjoiner Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jun 22, 2008

    Lafie -- I love your passion, but you have obviously not read a rule book or participated in organized boxing.

    The rules clearly state that a fighter is considered down unless he is up under his own power. When Bute was laying against the ropes, he should have been considered down and the count should have continued. That, alone would have gone past ten.

    Secondly, there were several seconds left on the clock when he staggerred to his feet and rested against the ropes. AT THAT TIME if he was unable to continue, the ref should have stopped the fight.

    ASK MELDRICK TAYLOR if a fight can be stopped with just seconds to go.

    The ref blew it two different ways. It will always be considered a sham job and should be indefensible to any knowledgable fan.

    Give credit to Bute for doing the gentlemanly thing and offerring a rematch after that disaster and stop sounding like an idiot for defending the ref.
     
    jeffjoiner, Oct 28, 2011
    jeffjoiner, Oct 28, 2011
    #35
  6. Sean Juan

    Sean Juan Boxing Addict Full Member

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    http://www.abcboxing.com/unified_boxing_rules.html


    10. A boxer who has been knocked down cannot be saved by the bell in any round.


    -------
    Uh, no. the ref is supposed to treat every second of the fight as though its the first round. If you get knocked down in the last round, get up and are too ****ed to continue, you lose.
    You can't be saved by the bell.
     
    Sean Juan, Oct 28, 2011
    Sean Juan, Oct 28, 2011
    #36
  7. drozzy

    drozzy AERE Full Member

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    Nov 2, 2010
    ..any of you guys remember the "Bute Hating 101" thread I made last spring, that got deleted by mods? :D

    Kessler can be ill. Froch can be injured and delay a major fight, as can Ward. However Bute can't legitimately go through these things in the eyes of the ESB haters. Point proven.
     
    drozzy, Oct 28, 2011
    drozzy, Oct 28, 2011
    #37
  8. Sean Juan

    Sean Juan Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Beat me to it. It really is nice to see that someone has a grasp of what boxing is.

    Great post guy.

    Its stunning how often on this site people call me stupid and then say things that are flat out wrong as though they are facts. Don't ask someone to site a rule book when you are wrong about the rules you ****ing fool.
     
    Sean Juan, Oct 28, 2011
    Sean Juan, Oct 28, 2011
    #38
  9. jeffjoiner

    jeffjoiner Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jun 22, 2008

    For that to be true:
    1. He would have needed to be knocked down with less than 10 seconds remaining.
    2. He would have had to stand under his own power.

    If you tell me number 1 is true, I will post the video of the knockdown, the clock will show more than seconds, and you will be exposed as the idiot you are.

    So, do you want to shut up or do you want indisputable video evidence to prove you wrong?
     
    jeffjoiner, Oct 28, 2011
    jeffjoiner, Oct 28, 2011
    #39
  10. Sean Juan

    Sean Juan Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Bute is a fantastic fighter. One of the best fighters out there right now. Exciting, fights the best guys he really can considering the super 6 locks up the top guys.

    But he lost to Andrade in the first fight. Or should have at least.
     
    Sean Juan, Oct 28, 2011
    Sean Juan, Oct 28, 2011
    #40
  11. jeffjoiner

    jeffjoiner Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Thanks.

    Usually the first people to say things like "read the rules" or "you've never boxed" are the ones who haven't. That is obviously the case with Lafie.
     
    jeffjoiner, Oct 28, 2011
    jeffjoiner, Oct 28, 2011
    #41
  12. MJK

    MJK Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Since the fight was finish for some time, Bute had only to raise from the floor.

    http://assets.ibf-usba-boxing.com/File/IBF-USBABoutRules.pdf

    In Knockdown
    6. The bell will not save a boxer in any round of the bout. If a boxer is "downed" just
    before the 3-minute bell in any round, the referee's count shall continue and the bell will not ring until the boxer rises and his hands clear the floor.

    When the ref ask a fighter if he is fit to continu is because his job is to make sure that the fighter will not have injuries and health problems. In the case of Bute, it was IMPOSSIBLE for Andrade to give punch or make any damage to Bute, because the fight was over.
     
    MJK, Oct 28, 2011
    MJK, Oct 28, 2011
    #42
  13. MJK

    MJK Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Go ahead champion
     
    MJK, Oct 28, 2011
    MJK, Oct 28, 2011
    #43
  14. drozzy

    drozzy AERE Full Member

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    Nov 2, 2010
    ESB columnist thinks different...

    "After the referee sent Andrade back to his corner, he resumed the count at six (6). In other words, he counted six twice! This irregular incident contributed to pundits characterising the referee as biased towards Bute. Bute was given an extra second to recover. Although irregular, this incident is immaterial to whether Bute was knocked out or not or to whether the referee stole a precious second from Andrade, depriving him of the chance to try and knock Bute out, after the fight was restarted. It is immaterial because Bute already beat the count before the referee counted six for the first time, so he didn't depend on that extra count of six to beat the count, and because the fight was already over before the referee restarted the count and counted six for the second time, so Andrade was no deprived of that extra second in his attempt to finish Bute off.

    The fight was over but no one knew it, because the timekeeper had failed to ring the bell signalling the end of the fight the moment Bute was up on his feet with his hands clear of the floor, eight seconds after the knockdown, six seconds after the end of the three minute period, as Rule No. 6 requires. The referee continued the eight (8) count, finished the eight (8) count, asked Bute if he was ready to carry on by demanding that he raise his gloves, Bute raised his gloves, signalling he was ready to continue, the referee restarted the fight (even though it had long been over, according to the rules), Bute took a small step forward, and then and only then, did the timekeeper ring the bell. After hearing the bell, the referee waved it off.

    WAS BUTE KNOCKED OUT?

    The only way Andrade could have won by knockout in the final round, is if Bute had not beaten the count. According to Rules No.1 and No. 3, Bute would have been considered knocked out if any part of his body except his feet were on the floor, or if he was hanging helplessly over the ropes at the end of the ten (10) count. Now, eight (8) seconds after the knockdown, no parts of Bute's body except his feet were on the floor and he was not hanging helplessly over the ropes either. He remained in this situation for the rest of the evening. In other words, Bute was not knocked out. He was knocked down, got back up and would have beaten the eight (8) count, had that been completed, since he was up within eight (8) seconds."

    http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=17659&more=1
     
    drozzy, Oct 28, 2011
    drozzy, Oct 28, 2011
    #44
  15. laffie

    laffie Montreal Full Member

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    Jan 5, 2008
    You still haven't the rules, apparently. What you think is not relevant here. I repeat, and that's written in the IBF rules, that as soon as no part of Bute's body but his feet were on the canvas, the fight was over. That's what's written in the IBF rules.
     
    laffie, Oct 28, 2011
    laffie, Oct 28, 2011
    #45
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