Jack Johnson vs. Jeffries in 1905

Thank you for your contributions,I have not read your books but have heard positive things about them .The next one interests me and I will probably get it.
I've no wish to offend you but these stories are apocryphal, and I don't believe them.
I am sure you published them in good faith but ,I don't accept that a youth could lift timbers that later required 8 men to lift them,neither do I accept that he later in life could effortlessly lift a 510lbs steer into the back of a wagon.
I believe such feats would be beyond the capabilities of the men who compete in the" Strongest Man ",and would defeat even Mariusz Pudzianowski who held, [holds?]the record for lifting the heaviest stone of 414lbs,which is nearly 100lbs less than you claim Jeffries managed.

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I would be prepared to accept first hand ringside accounts of Jeffries throwing his opponents around like rag dolls if you should wish to provide them with primary sources.I am sure Jeffries was strong, as any trained athlete of 218/220lbs who engaged in contact sports would be strong. But I have seen no proof that he was appreciably stronger than any other man of his size ,and condition.No footage of him in fights demonstrates it, no ringside accounts that I have seen say it.
I therefore entertain the possibility that he was not significantly ,[or if any,] stronger than Johnson ,and that is the reason he was unable to man handle, or throw Johnson around during the early stages of their fight.
Fact is when Jeffries met a man his own size he failed to bully him,and we have no ringside reports[unless you care to furnish them,] of him doing it to men he greatly outweighed. I reiterate I am in no way denigrating either your book, or Jeffries himself, what I am doing is questioning this blind acceptance of him as some kind of Davy Crockett/Paul Bunyan figure.

 

So let's get this straight, JEffries as a teenager picked up a weight that would constitute a world dead lift world record today and threw it Or is the 800-900lb plate irrelevant?

I have a bridge to sell anyone who can't tell how laughable some of these stories sound. They are clearly hype devised to sell fights

 

You must be dense. Once again I have told you thins before, and posted news reads to back up what I say, Why can't you learn? Delaney had an acrimonious split from Jeffries, and made stuff up. He was in fact in Johnson corner. So try to learn something for once, and stop making an a@@ clown of yourself on this topic and others.

Read the below link. It clearly states that Delaney was in Johnson corner. Jeffries not only had to fight 5 years of rust, losing strength from shedding 80+ pounds, and age, he also to had to ponder what his old trainer told Johnson about how best to defeat him.



[url]http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10B12FA395F13738DDDAF0A94D9405B828DF1D3[/url]



[url]http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10B12FA395F13738DDDAF0A94D9405B828DF1D3[/url]

 

WRONG AGAIN!!! Your batting 1000 here. To paraphrase what Jeanette said " Johnson has no chance against Jeffires unless Jeffereis was bound with balls and chains on his arms and legs. Jeanette assumed Jeffries could return to form, which of course he did not.


Also you wrote it was Langford who picked Jeffries, then says it was not Jeanette, Mcvey or Langford. Your a defective cancerous old man! You had it right the first time. Langford picked Jeffries to win.


Others should not waste time on you, and if you are taking photos from another site, you should list the source.

 

You are a moron. Do you read reports or watch any film??? It can be seen and read in the Sharkey report. One reports said Jeffries shook Sharkey like a small child. Sharkey charged in on film, and Jeffires picked him up over his head, then set Shareky back down. You waste our time...

 

I have seen this photo. I hope you are not a duplicate account of another poster with an agenda.

Testimonials to Jeffries strength and athleticism are out there. Jeffries was a super athlete of his time, who happened to make his living by boxing.

You can catch a glimpse of his agility, flexibility, lifting power, and boxing ability in his filmed sparring match preparing for the Ruhlin fight. Here you will see Jeffries lock up in a cling, and swing his opponent ( his 200 pound brother ) around with ease. Some of it is on you tube, but part of the good stuff is left out.

 

The picture

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I continue to support his physical strength in the ring based on the accounts of all who fought him and saw him. Your surgical selections of the more over the top legends are transparent attempts that do nothing to diminish the claims of all his opponents. However, I completely agree the tall tales of super human strength are simply legend ... that being said, again I ask, where was Johnson's strength against Marvin Hart ? Read the round by round newspaper coverage and it was no factor in a fight against Marvin. Maybe Hart was the superhuman one ?

 

Mendoza, Kaput is a troll. Any brand new clown with such an agenda and transparent attempts to consistently engage particular is a dead give away. THis guy's a bit dense as well ... kind of funny.

 

I look at it this way. There was absolutely no doubt in the minds of anyone that Jeffries was physically stronger and a harder puncher than Johnson. But, that's the beauty of boxing. The stronger man, and the harder punching man, does not always win a fight. Ask Liston or Shavers or Dempsey. There is more to it than that. You have to be able to use your strength effectively, you have to be able to land. Johnson had the best defense in boxing. The Johnson of 1910 was bigger, stronger, and more experienced than the Johnson of 1905, plus he had been active and sharp all those years, whereas Jeffries had been a fat guy not doing any training. The Jeffries that Johnson fought had been inactive for many years, and when you don't do something for many years, you lose something, no matter what it is in life. Jeffries in 1910 was not quite as strong, was not as fast, he could not keep the same pace. It is like comparing George Foreman in 1977 to the Foreman in his first comeback fight in 1987. Was he strong? Sure. But was he as fast or as busy, or as sharp or as effective? Hell no. And if he had fought Holmes or Tyson in his first fight back, would he have gotten handled easily? Of course.

This is not to say Johnson might not have beaten Jeff in 1905. Most thought Johnson was the only one who could give Jeff a test, though the vast majority thought Jeff would win. But we'll never know because it didn't happen, and it didn't happen because Jeff refused to cross the color line as champion in a championship bout. It had nothing to do with cowardice. Otherwise, Jeff would not have fought him in 1910. He had a whole lot more to fear in 1910 than in 1905, because by 1910 Jeff was worse and Johnson was better.

 

Describe exactly what is in the photo and the way he's holding them, is any other equipment used? I'll be able to tell if he's using strong man (which is possible) or this is another myth being perpetuated by Jeffries fanatics

You are joking He'd get laughed out of any modern boxing gym, he visually looks a strong guy though granted, in effect the super heavyweight of his day with not bad skills for the day but not special either

 

Isn't the whole point of the story that Jeffries lifted a weight in the heat of the moment, that required "unexplainable strength", because it was a matter of life or death ?

It's much the same as the stories of women lifting cars to get their trapped children out, unexplainable under normal circumstances.
I've never witnessed such an event but they are routinely quoted as anecdotes.

I tend to believe that it is possible under those circumstances. After all, powerlifters attempt to psyche themselves up to reach heightened states to lift "maximum" weights anyway, and tap into their higher potential.
Perhaps if Mariusz Pudwianowski had a child trapped under train carriage he'd lift it too.

 

This could be a steer if Jeff was really cruel.

 

Even a troll can not dispute that logic although Kaput might try ... I tend to think McVey (who I am a big fan of) will agree with this ... Jeffries arrogance did him in ... if he fought Johnson in 06 without question the humiliation of 1910 would never have happened and history would be much kinder to him ...

 

Basically sums it up.

Now, for agreeing whole-heartedly may I receive a free copy of In the Ring with Tony Tubbs?