It's your overall body of work that counts - you don't get disqualified from being an ATG because you lose fights. If you move far above you prime weight class and take on the best fighters around you will eventually lose a fight. You contradict yourself here. Without having seen a lot of definitive lists then you are in no position to dismiss Hearns ranking as being down to fan perceptions. ??? Liles was past prime and had looked dreadful during the Jaffa fight. A fight in which he got dropped twice by a journeyman and barely got past him. Liles was never the same after splitting with Roach and ended up losing to a fighter he had no business losing to. Just like other fighters like Lewis and Dawson have lost fights to fighters they had no business losing to. This is why consistency is so important because it proves that, that top win in the past was because of skill and not just being in the right place at the right time. Mitchell's train wreck of a career proves for Mitchell it was the latter.
This thread just exposes the Tony/Michigan/cocksuckery that goes on at esb. Ottke aka " body snatcher " would make tony his *****. Provided tony wasn't juicing.
Ottke was a decent fighter but WTF does that have to do with James Toney. Plus, that ref cheated in the Reid fight. That was a real bad one!
Maske was nothing special. Who did he ever beat? Barkley: Way over the hill and coming off a very bad beat down at the hand of James Toney - he was basically a journeyman at that point of his career. Hill: Past prime. Coming off a 3 round ko loss to Jones - never beat anyone worth mentioning after the Jones loss Rocchiagani: His claim to fame is beating a way over the hill Nunn. Who had no business fighting as high as lhw. No. You did. This is triangle theory ???????? How on earth could Liles be past his best? He had just entered his prime at that point. The fact is Nunn was the better fighter and lost a very debateable decision. Have you seen Liles's fights with Jaffa and Mitchell? lol As if the fight would of gone any different if it had happened a few years earlier. Ottke more than made up for being past prime by excessive clinching, charging in with the head and crying to the ref. The smw division was decent during the early 90's with guys like: Nunn, Eubank, Benn, Liles, Toney and Jones. post 96 - it was a barren wasteland and wouldnt become decent again until recent times with the arrival of Froch, Ward and Bute. It's the reason why Calzaghe says he wished he arrived on the scene earlier
Your earlier post: Joppy was a fringe contender. The fact that you think it is some kind of great accomplisment to beat a man who beat a fringe contender says it all. ps: you need to stop boxrecing It's your skill level and/or your quality of opposition which defines you as a top fighter. Having a belt doesn't mean much these days. You can be a journey man Ruiz, Abraham, Lacy, McCall and be a world champion. Lacy was a journeyman with a belt. The fact that Mitchell might be better than him and that is debatable, doesnt mean much. ???? Losing a fight because you are weight drained is not the same as losing a fight because you got outboxed. By beating a part time fighter. A really great accomplishment. And how did Brewer get the belt - he beat a over the hill Graham to pick up the vacant ibf title which Jones had vacated. I'm talking about Reid - not Brewer or Tate.
I said Ottke never beat a borderline ATG or a HOfer - your line of questioning bares no relevance to my point. You are the one that brought up fans perceptions when I asked you to elaborate you couldn't. Not the point. McCall was a journeyman before he beat Lewis and history shows he was still a journeyman afterwards. Pascal is a B level fighter who has the stamina to fight for around 4 rounds. Him beating Dawson didnt make him the man in the division as shown by the fact he lost twice to a 46 year old bad acting fighter. I guess Boxrec couldnt help you with that one
You can not be seriously comparing the likes of Brewer, Mitchell and Reid to Nunn, McCallum and R.Johnson Please stop boxrecing Show me some serious boxing historians who class Hill as a ATG? MAske is now a ATG lhw? According to who? You tried to dismiss Toneys win over Nunn by claiming that Nunn lost to Liles who lost to Mitchell who lost to Ottke. What was Liles major problem with Jaffa and tell me about the last kd in the fight? When Ottke is going life and death with fighters he had no business struggling with in the first place and getting dropped twice then you can say his time was definately up. When he going life and death with a another fighter he had no business losing to by ko - then we can say his time is up. Serious question do you think the Liles that fought Littles II would of got ko by Mitchell? No. It was a barren wasteland because it was full of b level fighters. Do you think Ottke and Brewer would got past Jones?
No, it had more stars period. It's the reason he should of moved up sooner to challenge the likes of Jones, Tarver, Johnson and Darius Kessler as I have said before is alright. But the facts still remain that Froch is still a top fighter - whos career is still far from over. Some dubious referring there would of been interesting to see how things would of ended but we will now never know- but they did have a rematch Styles make fights. Ward fights nothing like Calzaghe or Bute. Calzaghe is a top fighter but outside of Kessler the division was barren. Dirrell is a very talented athlete only time will tell how good that win is for Froch. G. Johnson's career is still far from over also. Don't rate Pascal but if he manages to beat say Cloud then it becomes a better win for Froch. Lacy was a journeyman Beyer???