REVISED: Under 185lb Tournament, FINALS # 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 2 Jack Dempsey

Edward, Yes Fleischer in his last years changed his mind on Greb/Ketchel.
So what. I was going by the VAST consensus that chose Dempsey over Marciano in Marciano's reign. KEY word E is consensus.
OF COURSE it is more than reasonable to think that Marciano could have beaten Dempsey.Certainly, but BASED on what those writers saw in Dempsey, they concurred most emphaticlly that Dempsey was TOO fast a puncher,much more accurate with his short range murderous blows ,whilst Marciano ,strong that he was ,missed half of his power punches,which
against a deadly hitter like Dempsey or Joe Louis,would be Rocky's being caught first and kod. My analysis is based solely on STYLES,and if all the boxing experts who picked Dempsey over Marciano were wrong ,well Edward I'm in good company. Wouldn't you say ? Anyone that a prime Dempsey or Joe Louis hit and hurt, were gone sooner or later. And when you have equal power punchers fighting each other, give me the FASTER puncher. This I have learned the hard way...Take care E...:hi:

 

Kurupt, I can't believe how naive you are being.

Over the next hundred years there could be hundred heavyweight fighters who rank above those defeated by say marciano, does this make his achievements any less impressive? Hell no. The guys rocky fought were the best in his era and were considered atg's at the time.

Rewind to dempsey's era and ask yourself how many heavyweights in previous history would rank above those defeated by jack. How many of those defeated by jack were not seen as elite at the time?

 

Conn,if U contact unforgiven,send him my best.As the old adage says "one Swallow doesn't make a Spring ", and one miscue can be Forgiven methinks

 

that is JUST it Luf.. NONE of them were considered great at the time. NOT ONE. Louis, Ali, Marciano, Joe, Liston, Foreman, Norton, Schemling, Holyfield, Tyson, Langford, Greb, Tunney and I could on and on fought ATG fighters.. sometimes numerous one or at the VERY LEAST close to ATG fighters. Dempesy has NONE NOT ONE. That is okay with you? The guys he did beat weren't considered even at the time to be world busters.. so what are we left with.

Answer me this Luf... If Greenbay got to pay St. Louis all year long.. they would probably go undefeated or at the very least look like one of the best teams of all time would the not? However, how could you actually judge them as a team if they are facing subpar competition. I'm not saying it would be their fault what era or time period they played.. but we have to call a spade a spade. So you're telling me we shouldn't look at who greenbay played and judge them accordingly. Instead you suggest just saying wel it doesn't matter who they fought.. they fought who they did and did well.. really?? Yet you call me being naive when I wanna go further into his record and actually look at it. Is there any part of you that feels that you can look like a better fighter than you really are if you fought b level fighers you whole career.. would you agree with this AT ALL?

 

could be. i dont no. reading what routinely is in this board i cant think that post wuld be enuff to warrant a life ban ...

..and also the post exists here to be quoted. its not been delted. so prolly unrelated?
general muggin of ESB posters? or a minor side swipe in a debate that alrdy had two clear sides maybe. Par for the course. Much much worse is in this board. nothin to get upset for.
yes it is always bad form to mention masturbation and JapPOW camps in one sentense. lol.
(****, look what i jus did!)

a life ban is strange whoever is responsible. Your explanation is good as any. thanks mcgrain.

 

Don't agree with you but there is nothing unreasonable about your position. Take care yourself and have a good day.

 

Will do that bb. whatever he did he sure woz very disapointed to have to leave this board. He has a lot of respect for everyone here even thugh he diagree with many. i will pass on your best wishes bb. thanks.

 

Burt, I have two questions:

-Who was the better heavyweight, Jeffries or Dempsey?

-You keep repeating that Dempsey is too much of a puncher - see the bolded bit in the quote - why didn't this show in his KO ratio? Why did Marciano prove to be much more efficient at scoring stoppages than Dempsey, despite what you call "missing half his power punches" and Dempsey being "too fast a puncher"? (By the way, I could live with landing only half my power punches:yep)

 

I agree Walcott fought a Great fight against Rocky, but he was close to 39 years old. Walcott might of been at his best when he fought Louis.

Walcott's last 17 fights before he fought Rocky, he was 10-7. He lost to Louis twice, Charles twice, Layne, Maxim and Ray. I know he also beat Charles twice, Ray and Maxim twice in very close decisions. In the 4th Charles fight this is how boxing people at ringside scored it.

Unofficial AP scorecard - 7-6-2 Charles

21 boxing writers were polled at ringside. 14 scored the bout for Charles and 7 scored it for Walcott.

Charles lost to Valdez and Harold Johnson less then a year before he fought Rocky.

 

I just want to quote this post for those who missed it.

By the way, although Walcott's recent record of 10-7 going into the Marciano fight was perhaps not perfect, it should be noted that his level of opposition was very high. He probably fought more ranked opponents during that period than most heavyweights currently do over their entire carreers.

 

CP, I can't debate with someone that has a closed mind. The vast majority of boxing people who were at ringside for Dempsey and Marciano, were a hell of a lot more knowledgable than you are 60-80 years later. You are so enamored with Marciano [I love him too,as I saw him Ringside], but I know boxing styles and IF there is any major Heavyweight since Dempsey that I know Jack would have the best chance to ko, it would be the wild punching Marciano. Dempsey , to savy boxing experts felt strongly that Dempsey
would get there first,inside of Marciano's wild swings and ko Marciano
quickly. No one survives a Dempsey AND Louis who they can counter easily
and Marciano, wild and a slow starter, could not survive an attack for long. Marciano was a strong attrition puncher whose voluminous punching wore down hius opponents. He hit an old Lee Savold with everything in the book, for 6 rds til the ref stopped the fight. He battered Brit Don Cockell for 9 rds before the ref stopped the bout. Yes he could ko you with 1 punch also,
but against ths panther-like young Dempsey or the prime Joe Louis both would beat him to the punch always,and with dire results for Rocky. Of course Marciano has a punchers chance the longer the bout lasts, but
according to the vast majority who picked Dempsey, their respective styles make this scenario improbable....I ,who admire Marciano greatly go on the side of the great consensus who saw them BOTH...Cheers...

 

If a rated fighter today had a record of 10-7 going into a fight, what would you really think?

I just heard the news that an Amateur Boxer from New York had a car accident this morning, killing his sister, and he is in very bad condition. He needs all our prayers.

I just put this out to the Boxing World.

Boxing champ Pedro Sosa and mother plummet 75 feet from overpass in icy multi-car pileup

Woman dies, Golden Gloves champion boxer fighting for life

BY Jennifer H. Cunningham , Erik Badia & Barry Paddock
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Sunday, October 30 2011, 9:53 PM

This content is protected

Vic Nicastro for New York Daily News
Emergency Service officers in construction area under the Cross Bronx Expressway after a brother and sister fell 75 feet from the roadway above. The woman, 21-year-old Jeneffer Sosa, died. Her 20-year-old brother, boxer Pedro Luis Sosa, is in a coma.

This content is protected

Vic Nicastro for New York Daily News
The scene of Sunday's deadly accident. The victims were thrown from the overpass above to the ground behind the payloader.

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Pedro Sosa

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Jeneffer Sosa,of the Bronx, who was killed in a car accident Sunday morning.

 

A monstrous multi-car pileup on the ice-slicked Cross Bronx Expressway Sunday sent a young mother and her boxer brother flying 75 feet off an overpass.
Jeneffer Sosa, 21, was killed. Her 20-year-old brother, Golden Gloves champion Pedro Luis Sosa, 20, was in a coma, relatives said.
The brawler, who narrowly missed a spot on the 2012 Olympic team in August, was about to turn pro Monday.
“It was supposed to be a big day,” said Sosa’s boxing coach, Marco Suarez.
Instead, family and friends gathered to mourn the loss of Jeneffer Sosa and pray for her brother. “Everybody’s crying,” Suarez said. “Everybody's waiting to see if he's going to live, or if he's going to die."
The Sosas were among 10 people packed into a Chevy Venture traveling east on the Cross Bronx Expressway about 5:45 a.m. Sunday as temperatures hovered near freezing and road surfaces turned treacherous.
An accident in the west-bound lane caused some drivers to hit their brakes to rubberneck, prompting a wild pile up, with cars spinning around on the black ice. "It was like tops," one police source said.
When the initial chaos ended, Jeneffer and Pedro Luis Sosa got out of the Chevy to check on a car ahead of them, cops and friends said. That’s when a Toyota Corolla, hit in yet a third multi-vehicle wreck, slammed into them and sent them flying off the overpass into the darkness.
“While they were trying to solve their accident, they had another accident,” said Vladimir Cruz, 31, a cousin of the victims. “The guy that got hit, hit them. One car hit the other one.”
Witness Joe Torres, 34, saw the mayhem from his tow truck underneath the elevated roadway.
“There were cars spun out everywhere up there," Torres said.
The pair fell about 75 feet into a construction site below, near Bruckner Blvd. and Brush Ave., cops and witnesses said.
Torres, who works at a nearby auto collision shop, said he heard Jennifer Sosa screaming from inside the fenced-off construction site.
“At first I thought we were going crazy,” Torres said, “Then I hear her yelling, screaming at the top of her lungs.”
Torres led police to the site. “I had to bring them down here because they didn't believe me,” Torres said.
Cops broke down a gate at the construction site to get to the injured Sosas, witnesses said.
They were rushed to Jacobi Medical Center, where Jennifer Sosa, the mother of a toddler son who worked at Yonkers Raceway, died.
Pedro Luis Sosa was barely clinging to life as relatives gathered around him in the Intensive Care Unit
“All we know is that he’s in the toughest fight of his life right now. We're not really thinking of his boxing career. We're just thinking of him. He's a fighter. Hopefully he'll be able to pull through. He's strong,” said Steven Martinez, a close friend who grew up with the boxer.
Pedro Luis Sosa, who represented the Cops and Kids Gym in the Bronx and was renowned for his left hook, won the prestigious Junior Olympic National Championships in 2008, was the 2009 and 2011 PAL National Champion and the 2010 USA Boxing National Champion.
He barely goes out to party. He goes from his home to the gym, back to his house, Martinez said. He was a family person.
Sosa s coach said the 141-pound boxer was one of the best lightweights in the country.
He was number one in the country for three years straight, Suarez said. Pedro was a brawler. Very aggressive. The best kind of puncher. His heavy punch was the left hook.
Fourteen other people were hurt in the chain-reaction crash that involved at least nine vehicles, officials said. They were all expected to survive.
Nobody was charged in the wild series of accidents that occurred as temperatures plummeted to 33 degrees in the wake of Saturday s freak October Nor easter.
Pedro Sosa Sr., the father of the two overpass victims, said he wanted answers. I just want the authorities to please investigate this thoroughly, because I have no idea what happened - how this went from a minor accident, he said.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...lti-car-pileup-article-1.969538#ixzz1cOvpibRS

 

Kurupt. Willard was regarded one of the greatest heavyweight champions at the time, I believe he had to get a pre pardon because it was feared he might murder jack!

Fulton and brennan were the two highest regarded white heavyweights out there.

Gibbons was a one time p4p king.

Firpo was a top contender also.

Either way you shoot yourself in your foot by definition. You mention tunney, which atg heavyweight did he beat?

A small handful drew the colour lined as terribly as jack, a namesake of his is in that list. A namesake you hold in the highest regard.

Lack of objectivity is never a good thing my friend.