When would have Holmes beaten Ali? 1975,1976,1977,1978,1979, or 1980

Larry mentioned once watching Ali-Norton III, knowing he could beat both of them.So I'm thinking anywhere from late 1976 onwards.

 

I agree,Mendoza. I'd rate 1976 as pick 'em,and Ali would win convincingly before that.

 

The Ali of 1964-75,certainly.

 

I've changed my mind on this I think Holmes does better than a '76 Norton

 

by 1977.................i have holmes vs rodney bobick (on dvd)on the ali/frazier 3 undercard in 75 and holmes was thin and definetly not ready for ali in 75.....i say 1977 but then again holmes struggled with tom prater in a 8 rd fight in 1977(i have that fight on dvd)....ali in 77 way past his due date still woulda wooped tom prater no prob.......so im going to say 1978:good:good

 

Post 76 is all Holmes.

 

That doesn't cement his argument

 

Larry Holmes answered this question himself in his autobiography: As memory serves, I'm almost positive he said he considered himself the best heavyweight in the world and capable of beating Ali by 1976.

Personally, I think that prime Holmes is always a tough match-up for Ali...even if 60s Ali and 80s Holmes could be 'time-machined' together in their absolute primes.

Going by the actual timeline, I see the Ali from Frazier III having too much of an edge in experience, and beating Holmes in a tough match.

After Manila in 1975, Ali was a spent force. Still a good fighter, but never a great fighter after that point. Ali could still give Holmes a very good fight in 1976, but I don't think he's going to beat Holmes at any point after Frazier III. Any later than 1976, and Ali is losing very badly to Larry, IMO.




Frazier III was absolutely the last fight Ali should have had. Probably, after beating Foreman was the ideal exit point for Ali. He would have left the sport with a reasonably unscrambled brain.

 

If I remember correctly, in the book Facing Ali, Holmes states that having been a sparring partner for Ali, he knew all of his moves and could have beaten him in 1975. Maybe, but my pick would be 1977 based on their respective showings against Earnie Shavers in this time period.

 

He probably meant a prime Holmes would have defeated any post exile Ali, which i would have to agree with. Just for the record i do believe a prime Ali beats a prime Holmes.

 

Well ali lost to norton in 76 and I fancy holmes to have a number on ali from that fight on.

 

Depends on how you view the first Spinks fight, was that orchrastrated by Ali ( but that's another thread)?

Late 76 for me

 

1978-1982, for me.

 

Larry was fooling himself if he thought that he could've beaten Muhammad in '75.