Barkley vs. Duran

I've watched this fight a few times, but only scored it once, when I was maybe 14 and I remember I had Barkley by a point. 17 years and a lot of fights later, I may well score it differently.

 

It's worse than revisionism, MAG. You have an agenda and are impervious to alternative ways of looking at it. You should concede a point once in a while.

Buchanan was a solid champion and a hell of a competitor -Duran was 21. And Barkley? Come on.

Here's a little challenge for you. Name another natural lightweight who can go 15 with Hagler or defeat a peaking Barkley at 37 years old.

Don't duck me.

 

I don't like the "natural lightweight" stuff. He grew out of the weightclass. He wasn't some 135 pounder in the ring with Barkley that night. Its really a false point, and irks me whenever I hear it.

Duran was a brilliant fighter, though. No freaking question. What allowed him to keep ascending weightclasses past what seemed to fit (160 and higher didn't look that good on him) was his dynamite skill set, and steel jaw.

Barkley was big, strong, and powerful, but he couldn't hurt Duran bad enough, and he was far from a skilled enough boxer to outduel him.

I had Duran winning pretty clear. Several points including the KD.

 

It irks me when people pretend that his fighting 12 or 20 lbs over his weight when he was at his best and long after he had stopped growing somehow makes him a natural welter or middle.

I'll give you that it is open to debate, but let's be clear here -no one is claiming that Duran is a natural featherweight. No one would claim that Robinson was a natural lightweight either. Why. Because Duran grew out of the featherweight division and Robinson grew out of the lightweight division. They were teenagers. Duran was a full-grown man when he moved into the welterweight division. No one in their right mind would call him a natural middleweight -he was a blown-up lightweight and that was said as early as 1979. He ate himself out of his natural territory when he was 25/26 years old. The weight you put on when you get past that age is called fat. If you train high-tech you can turn it into muscle like Pacquiao and Mayweather and company -but let's not pretend that Pacquiao is now a natural welterweight just because he looks good.

My fighting weight was 160. I'm 185 now because my blasted metabolism has slowed down to a snail's pace. Every now and then I'll spar. But I didn't "grow" into a damn cruiserweight. I ate lasagna and cookies!

You half-answered your own question when you mentioned that it was his skill that allowed him to compete against bigger men. That's the whole point.

 

Duran was a natural welter, he was in amazing condition in the first Leonard fight, even grew into good condition against Hagler. He was better at LW but he added solid muscle after leaving that division

 

You can still mature into higher weightclasses past when your body stops gaining naturally in size.

Sometimes, a boxers very training regime puts muscle mass on him that leads to him growing.

Others, they are cutting so much weight, that eventually, age and wear and tear prevent that process from being tackled.


Duran was easily a natural 150 pound man, maybe even a bit more. He trimmed down to 135, and eventually decided to stop and pursue bigger, far more meaningful fights.

He fought Leonard at a weight he absolutely belonged at. Same with Moore. Just probably spent less of his training camp shaving pounds.

I'm a 240 pound man, but as a teenager, I used to bust my balls daily to make heavyweight. It was hard, but possible. Duran most likely did the same thing.

Doesn't detract from his incredible accomplishments. He's indisputably one the best guys to ever do it. But it bothers me when OTHER fighters get knocked for getting beat by "A welterweight" or "a lightweight". Thats not what they fought in the ring.

Barkley got beaten by a damn legend. Not a lightweight. A legend who weighed quite a bit more than 135, and probably couldn't have made that weight had he chopped off his arm. That is my point.

 

Ray Robinson, Holman Williams, Cocoa Kid. Maybe DLH, Mayweather, Whitaker, Napoles, Armstrong

 

Duran was a lightweight up until he was 27 years old though. Even Pacquiao hasn't gained a substantial amount of weight since 2004 when he used to weigh in at 140+ pounds to his fights.

 

26 and fighting weighing 151 7 months later, are you telling me Duran didn't cut a little water at LW or skip breakfast? I wouldn't be surprised if he was a bit drained at LW, he was at the weight since the age of 20

 

He weighed 151 for a no name fight which he probably didn't even train for.

Duran was known to put on a lot of weight in between fights but this doesn't necessarily make him a huge lightweight. Was Hatton a huge light welterweight?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG5rzlDLyxg[/ame]

 

Probably not but he was happily weighing in as WW from then on though. Hatton came into the ring between 154-160, in terms of muscular thickness I'd say he he was pretty big (I know that wasn't what you were getting at). If you listen to the commentary it says 'there's talk of him becoming a MW at some stage'

Duran in Leonard 1 - great condition, not an ounce of fat on him, completely grown into the 147lbs frame

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrVU4LWLClo&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLD703E4332CEB46A9[/ame]

Duran against Hagler isn't ripped but looks to have a similar bodyfat level to say Lamotta (who had similar dimensions)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3fZ_bSAy8Y[/ame]

 

But as a welterweight he wasn't worth anything.

He weighed 145 pounds.

Weighed 156 lbs (2 lbs above light middle). Unlike LaMotta, likely did not fight at 168+ lbs. When he did, he looked well overweight, like a barrel.

 

1. Well yes but that was more to do with levels and in fairness he pushed Mayweather more than Mosley or Ortiz managed

2/3 That doesn't mean he didn't gain some water/carbs back after the weigh in, which would see him go up in weight, I think Paul Williams was 145 against Margarito too. Fighters have used saunas/cutting carbs for a long time to make weight. Lets not forget he was supposedly drained against Hearns, he's either too small for 160lbs or too big for 154lbs, can't have it both ways

 

I doubt he would train himself to be well under the limit only to add extra pounds. Whenever he fought at 160+, it showed. Even in his early welterweight days he was looking far from peak condition at 147+.

 

TGA you're too quick for my edits I wouldn't say he was in the greatest condition for some of his 147 fights but against Leonard he was. Against Hagler he wasn't in great condition but I bet he gained some water weight back after the weigh in.

You might think it sounds silly to go under the limit to add a load of weight back but plenty of fighters do. Hatton was 155 against Mayweather after weighing in at 145. Hopkins was 169-171 (forget which but its around there) after weighing 156 against DLH