The problem with Juan Manuel Marquez....

Nay_Sayer · Nov 8, 2011

Etu86 said: ↑

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Lol.

Please define "negroid" and don't forget to cite your sources.

I can't wait to hear this...

Nay_Sayer · Nov 8, 2011

Based on the high frequency and diversity of haplogroup M in India and elsewhere in Asia, some authors have suggested (versus [3]) that M may have arisen in Southwest Asia [16,17,31]. Finding M1 or a lineage ancestral to M1 in India, could help to explain the presence of M1 in Africa as a result of a back migration from India. Yet, to date this has not been achieved [15], this study). Therefore, one cannot rule out the still most parsimonious scenario that haplogroup M arose in East Africa [3]. Furthermore, the lack of L3 lineages other than M and N (indeed, L3M and L3N) in India is more consistent with the African launch of haplogroup M. On the other hand, one also observes that: i) M1 is the only variant of haplogroup M found in Africa; ii) M1 has a fairly restricted phylogeography in Africa, barely penetrating into sub- Saharan populations, being found predominantly in association with the Afro-Asiatic linguistic phylum a finding that appears to be inconsistent with the distribution of sub-clades of haplogroups L3 and L2 that have similar time depths. That, plus the presence of M1 without accompanying L lineages in the Caucasus [32] and [our unpublished data], leaves the question about the origin of haplogroup M still open.

- Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in South and Southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans, Mait Metspalu, Toomas Kivisild, Ene Metspalu, Jüri Parik, Georgi Hudjashov, Katrin Kaldma, Piia Serk, Monika Karmin, Doron M Behar, M Thomas P Gilbert, Phillip Endicott, Sarabjit Mastana, Surinder S Papiha, Karl Skorecki, Antonio Torroni and Richard Villems

[url]http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Metspalu2004.pdf[/url]

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Now, exactly what were you saying about Haplogroup M?

Etu86 · Nov 8, 2011

Nay_Sayer said: ↑

Lol.
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Nay_Sayer said: ↑

So is it then your argument that Somalians and Ethiopians are Caucasians?

Is that what you're trying to say?
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Nay_Sayer said: ↑

"Please define "negroid" and don't forget to cite your sources.
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Etu86 · Nov 8, 2011

Nay_Sayer said: ↑

Now, exactly what were you saying about Haplogroup M?
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Nay_Sayer · Nov 8, 2011

Etu86 said: ↑

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Do they really?

Lol. They certainly look like they possess "substantial" amounts of "caucasian" DNA with their dark skin.

lol...

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If you're going to use the term "negroid" then you should be prepared to DEFINE it.

Please define the term "negroid" and be sure to cite your sources - that is *IF* you can.

I'm waiting.

Nay_Sayer · Nov 8, 2011

Science 6 April 2007:
Vol. 316. no. 5821, pp. 50 - 53
Letters

Timing of a Back-Migration into Africa

Indigenous North Africans are genetically quite distinct from sub-Saharan Africans (1), and this difference is reflected in their lighter skin and European/Middle Eastern physical features. We have previously suggested, on the basis of the distribution of mtDNA type M1, that North Africans are largely descended from a back-migration into Africa within the last 2000 to 15,000 years, resettling the temporarily lush Sahara and spreading the Afro-Asiatic language family (2). In their Report "The mtDNA legacy of the Levantine early Upper Palaeolithic in Africa" (15 Dec. 2006, p. 1767), A. Olivieri and colleagues used high-resolution mtDNA data to propose that the migration from Asia back to North Africa happened much earlier, and they link the settlement of North Africa with the settlement of Europe 40,000 to 45,000 years ago.

Three points lead us to believe that our younger chronology for the back-migration into northern Africa still merits consideration. First, the mtDNA trees reconstructed by Olivieri and colleagues are less than conclusive because they consist of phylogeographically mixed branches, which cause uncertainty in identifying the relevant founder nodes for genetic dating. Second, in our view the fact that the North African mtDNA marker types still correspond so closely with the Afro-Asiatic language zone argues against the existence of that correlation for tens of thousands of years. Third, cave art in the Sahara shows that in Neolithic times (around 5000 B.C.), the population of the Sahara was still of sub-Saharan African ancestry (see figure), whereas "Europoid" figures documenting the arrival of west Eurasians appear later in the cave art record (3).

-

Within the framework of our younger chronology, the occurrence of low frequencies of M1 types in the European Mediterranean can be explained by diffusion from the Middle East and North Africa during and since the Neolithic. The Sardinian M1 mtDNA founder date of 7700 ± 3100 years years calculated by Olivieri and colleagues would conveniently fit with the arrival of farming in the European Mediterranean.

In conclusion, we suggest that more recent influx from Asia, possibly since the Last Glacial Maximum 20,000 years ago, may better explain some of the major genetic and linguistic patterns in North Africa and adjacent areas [cf. (4, 5)]. We nevertheless believe that future archaeogenetic research on Ice Age Africa and subsequent periods will benefit greatly from the complete mtDNA sequencing approach taken by Olivieri and colleagues.

Peter Forster*
Department of Forensic Science and Chemistry
Anglia Ruskin University, Cambridge CB1 1PT, UK
and New Hall, University of Cambridge
Cambridge CB3 0DF, UK
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Oops, is that YOUR source?

Nay_Sayer · Nov 8, 2011

More haplogroup M goodness...

"The richest basal variation in the founder haplogroups , N and R is found among the southern stretch of Eurasia, particularly in the Indian subcontinent (Figure 1), suggesting a rapid colonization along the southern coast of Asia.. Western Eurasians, in contrast with Southern Asians, eastern Eurasians, and Australasians, have a high level of haplogroup diversity within the haplogroup N and R, but lack haplogroup M also entirely (Figure 1)... Although Haplogroup M differentiated soon after the out of Africa exit and it is widely distributed in Asia (east Asia and India) and Oceania, there is an interesting exception for one of its more than 40 sub-clades: M1.. Indeed this lineage is mainly limited to the African continent with peaks in the Horn of Africa.

--Paola Spinozzi, Alessandro Zironi .
(2010). Origins as a Paradigm in the
Sciences and in the Humanities.
Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht. pp. 48-50

“..the M1 presence in the Arabian peninsula signals a predominant East African influence since the Neolithic onwards.“

-- Petraglia, M and Rose, J
(2010). The Evolution of Human
Populations in Arabia:

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Nay_Sayer · Nov 8, 2011

More haplogroup M goodness...

Macrohaplogroup M in Arabia

Macrohaplogroup M is particularly abundant and diverse in South and Southeast Asia, reaching frequencies above 60% in some regions (Metspalu et al., 2004). However, it is practically absent in western Asia (Quintana-Murci et al., 2004). In Africa, only one autochthonous basal branch of M, named M1, has been detected (Quintana-Murci et al., 1999). In this continent it has a predominant northern distribution. M1 is particularly abundant in Ethiopia (20%). From there, frequencies significantly diminish forming decreasing gradients westwards and southwards. It has been proposed that the presence of M1 in Africa and surrounding Mediterranean areas can be explained as result of two expansion centers situated in East and Northwest Africa which are marked by the radiation of subhaplogroups M1a and M1b respectively (Olivieri et al., 2006; González et al., 2007). Although the coalescence age of M1 is Paleolithic it seems that the most important expansions occurred in Neolithic times when the Sahara was a more hospitable region. Some authors consider that the presence of M1 in Africa supports the idea that macrohaplogroup M originated in eastern Africa and was carried towards Asia with the out of Africa expansion (Quintana-Murci et al., 1999), others think that the distribution of M1 in Africa traces an early human backflow to this Continent from Asia (Maca-Meyer et al., 2001; Olivieri et al., 2006; González et al., 2007).

- The Arabian peninsula: Gate for Human Migrations Out of Africa or Cul-de-Sac? A Mitochondrial DNA Phylogeographic Perspective (2009), Vicente M. Cabrera , Khaled K. Abu-Amero , José M. Larruga and Ana M. González
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MarioBrothers · Nov 8, 2011

Nay_Sayer said: ↑

....is that he's Mexican.

I'm sitting here watching the Marquez Pacquiao rematch and it's amazing how easy the fight is for Juan when he chooses to box. Manny is having all types of problems with Juan's movement and right hand lead/counter. Marquez is leading with hooks and straight right hands for which Pacquiao has no answer.

The problem with Marquez, as I see it, is that he allows Pacquiao to goad him into a brawl where Pacquiao then has the advantage.

Anyone who thinks it's going to be a blowout for Pacquiao is delusional...
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no, he did fine in the rematch, watch again what punch caught him with the knockdown and it was a fast one he didn't see coming, in fact he fought there with discipline. He wasn't being mexican because if he did, he would have been knock out. Thing is pac is fast as hell and you need to match his speed and you need to have 100% focus and concentration as a counter puncher.

What cause most of those KDs are balance issues as he wasn't hurt at any point in time even in the first fight he was just sort of daze, i think its more to do with how pac's punches effect his opponents.

PH|LLA · Nov 9, 2011

Pacquiao is a true Egyptian warrior

Reppin501 · Nov 9, 2011

Addie said: ↑

Perhaps we should credit Manny Pacquiao for having the athleticism, speed, and punching ability to land punches on JMM? No? Just a thought.
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Nah but maybe you could give credit to JMM for winning 16 of the 24 rounds of the two fights? His point is simply that JMM's pride and "mexican" attitude of standing and trading cost him in the rematch. That he was pretty clearly beating Manny, other than when he elected to stand and trade...like "mexicans" are percieved to do. I believe that was what he was getting at, not saying I agree or disagree, just helping bridge the obvious communication gap.

Nay_Sayer · Nov 9, 2011

SILENCER said: ↑

NAYSAYER stop messaging me you freak...
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Excuse me, Genius, but it was YOU who inboxed me FIRST.

Now stay quiet, watch and learn something while I give your "archaeologist" friend a lesson on history and genetics.

Nay_Sayer · Nov 9, 2011

SILENCER said: ↑

he has just dismantled you!
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You obviously can't read, Genius.

His WHOLE argument is premised on an *alleged* back migration into Africa that, if it did indeed happened, probably took place some 40-45 thousand years ago.

Be patient and watch as I pick the rest of his arguments apart one by one.

Nay_Sayer · Nov 9, 2011

Etu86 said: ↑

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We'll see...

The nature of the body plan was also investigated by comparing the intermembral, brachial, and crural indices for these samples with values obtained from the literature. No significant differences were found in either index through time for either sex. The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the “super-Negroid” body plan described by Robins (1983). The values for the brachial and crural indices show that the distal segments of each limb are longer relative to the proximal segments than in many “African” populations (data from Aiello and Dean, 1990). This pattern is supported by Figure 7 (a plot of population mean femoral and tibial lengths; data from Ruff, 1994), which indicates that the Egyptians generally have tropical body plans. Of the Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and Early Dynastic period populations have shorter tibiae than predicted from femoral length. Despite these differences, all samples lie relatively clustered together as compared to the other populations.

Variation in Ancient Egyptian Stature and Body Proportions (2003), Sonia R. Zakrzewski

[url]http://wysinger.homestead.com/egyptian_body_proportions.pdf[/url]
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Once again, Mr "Archaeologist", YOUR OWN SOURCE REFUTES YOU.

MAG1965 · Nov 9, 2011

funny thing about this fight is the Pacman fights are Marquez claim to fame. If he loses easily to Pacman, it does affect his legacy. This fight is not just another fight for Marquez, but it is to Pacman.

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