If Ali were never stripped of his title ...

He would break the all time record of 30 defenses by Louis (which stood for all divisions), but whether or not he would do it in one or two reigns is another question.

As great as Frazier was, I don't believe he ever would have dethroned Ali. Joe was not ready for Muhammad until after the Bonavena rematch in December 1968. I think Smoke would probably get a premature title shot in late 1967 or early to mid 1968, and lose a hectic but clear decision. They would have an entertaining multiple fight series, but Chuvalo and Patterson were so emphatic about the diminished athleticism of Ali from late 1965 - early 1966 to 1972 that I just don't see Frazier overcoming the retention of that athleticism which would be preserved from never having been exiled. (Check out his gut in those still photographs with Marciano in Woroner's staged performance during what would have been Muhammad's physical peak in 1969. Ali had really let himself go.)

Those legs would have been better preserved, and he might never have resorted to punishment absorption and rope a doping, at least not to the degree he did during his second career. (Certainly not as he did in the FOTC.)

Beyond that, Smoke simply didn't have the right hand necessary to exploit Muhammad's foolishly neglected impacted wisdom tooth on the left side of his jaw as Norton eventually did. (Looking at the footage of Ali-Norton I, it seems clear to me that Ken fractured his mandible in round two, as Ali's camp claimed.) Norton might be the best candidate to dethrone Muhammad in a first time challenge, but he'd still have to pull it off over the championship distance, not a 12 round limit, and an SD was a fair reflection of how competitive Ali managed to be in their first bout. (The championship distance would have been five rounds longer than Ken had ever gone before.)

Difficult defenses against Frazier during the late 1960s and early 1970s would help him maintain a competitive edge as an undefeated champion, but a moment may well come when he has a letdown and off-performance. However, with no exile, combined with his extraordinary title activity through 1966 and the beginning of 1967, he might well set his sights quickly first on the all time 25 defense record of Louis, then the undefeated resume of Marciano. At a pace of five to six defenses annually from 1966 to 1969, he'd be close to Louis by the end of the decade. An unbroken string of a dozen years as champion to surpass another record of Louis would have been well within his abilities assuming proper focus. (He almost surely would have aimed for 50-0.)

It's entirely possible that he repels a mid 1970s challenge by Foreman, then leaves the sport for George to become his immediate successor. With no exile, he's probably long gone by the time the decade closes.

Rampant speculation, of course, but the thread question leaves that door wide open to an assortment of theories.

 

After beating Zora Foley,Muhammad turns back Thad Spencer,Floyd Patterson (rematch) and Jerry Quarry. All pretty easily. Joe Frazier gives him a tough fight in '68 and again the following year. It would n't surprise me if Muhammad retires unbeaten in the early 1970's.

 

Muhammed was a very active champion, and guys like Quarry Bonavena Norton etc, would not of been ready to meet Ali 2 years earlier then they did, so may of actually kept a similar timeline for their challenges, i think Ali would perhaps of embarked on his "Global Roadshow" a few years earlier, Perhaps accommodating fights with such as Leotis Martin, Amos " Big Train " Lincoln, Boone Kirkman, maybe Jeff Merritt, in international locations, (as he did with Blue Lewis in Ireland) perhaps Greg Peralta at Luna Park, Perhaps he could even have pumped enough life into a fight with Kent Green on the revenge angle, A few more could probably be dredged up, if the attraction was
seeing an Ali Fight, with not much attention paid to who was in the other corner. Ali's biggest enemy would be boredom, he might not train to diligently and put in a shoddy performance, so a rematch might occur along the way. I am sure opponents would of been found,

 

Remains undefeated until 68 after frazier beats mathis in an eliminator before getting his shot at ali, a shot he takes willingly and successfully.

History doesn't change that much imo.

 

So you think if Ali wasnt stripped that he would not be better than he was in first fight against Frazier??
When he came back he did not have the legs from before lay off, in 68 without lay off Ali would be much better, and i think he would beat Frazier off course in very hard fight but still wins.
I hate when people try to say like lay off did not take anything away from Ali.

 

Yeah I never said that which you hate so yipee

 

This may sound a bit controversial, but sometimes i think the layoff did Ali good.

Maybe not physically, but mentally, it gave Ali that desire, he wanted his title back and he was willing to go hell and back for it. Part of of the reason he took part in so many wars with so many dangerous fighters was the desire, he wanted to prove all his detractors wrong and prove why he was the greatest. With his layoff, he knew he wasnt what he once was, so he KNEW things will be tougher so he had to maybe alter is style and accept that he will have to take some heavy punishment.

*WARNING CONTROVERSIAL QUOTE*
Had he had not been stripped and exiled he may have become another Roy Jones, a guy who just relied on his speed and reflexes, but once those reflexes had disappeared, he was a KO waiting to happen because he hadnt changed his game in anyway.

Thats my take anyway.

Similar to Roy Jones and BHOP. Look at how Bhop evolved his style as he got older and hes still doing well despite being way past his prime, whereas Jones never changed his style and still believes hes the same figher he was when he was 20 and keeps getting KTFO

 

Not everything but i just think Ali would not lose without layoff, i mean he would later in his career since everyone wanted him to fight so he would have his defeat against Holmes and Berbick because he should not even fight at that stage of his career.

 

I think frazier beats ali prime for prime.

I think prime norton beats past prime ali.

I see no way he avoids those three losses actually. I don't see anyone else capable of beating him though.

 

Ali had trouble with left hook and Frazier (for me) had best left hook ever, but he would not stop Ali and for sure would not win decision, prime Ali is just to fast, amazing foot speed and Frazier would not be able to land as much as in their first fight. I see Ali winning decision with possibly being knocked down.

 

I see ali sweeping the first six rounds before frazier's workrate and pressure takes over.

 

to fight the way ali fought you have to be in top physical conditioning cuz he used constant movement and relied on super quick reflexes. how anyone could think a long layoff would be beneficial for that type of fighter must be crazy. it's ok if you've got a big puncher coming back like a foreman but for a fighter who relied on his constant footspeed the layoff was a big handicap which was proved when he started using the rope-a-dope which would never have happened in the exile years. i can't see anyone beating him in the 60s but frazier would've been his toughest opponent.

 

I think we all know Henry Cooper would have knocked him out. let's get real, people.

 

I hope you are joking if not **** off with myths...