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Unbiased RBR scoring in slow-motion of Pac-JMM III

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by dangerousity, Nov 16, 2011.

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dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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Divi253 said: ↑

I'd love to see how your numbers compare to compbubox.

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I'll break it down later to the same format as compubox has but I looked at some rounds and its very close. Usually 1 or 2 punches off.

dangerousity, Nov 16, 2011

#46

Divi253 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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dangerousity said: ↑

I'll break it down later to the same format as compubox has but I looked at some rounds and its very close. Usually 1 or 2 punches off.
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Good ****! I'll have to continue visiting this thread to see when it's posted.

Divi253, Nov 16, 2011

#47

dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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Windigo said: ↑

Perhaps you should start looking at the other 50% of scoring. If it was all about punches we could just put sensors in the body and face. Looking at your posts so far it looks like you aren't paying any attention to effective aggression and ring generalship.
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A lot of people ignore ring generalship and dont think the aggressor should get more points either. Ultimately those 2 things should lead you to landing more effective punches anyways. I'm not simply counting punches, I'm also looking at how effective those punches are. If we were to score on ring generalship & aggression, I think they both showed equally great ring generalship and Pac may swing the close rounds with his aggression, which maybe what happened with the judges scorecards vs mine.

dangerousity, Nov 16, 2011

#48
tarugojones Boxing Junkie Full Member

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BigReg said: ↑

When you watch the fight frame by frame, in super slo mo, on a 72 inch LCD, 3D tv, with a top level boxing referee and top level boxing judge, like I did, then you come back to me with your scorecard.
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Liar.

tarugojones, Nov 16, 2011

#49

Smokin' Joe ~ Dinamita Irlandés ~ banned

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An unbiased Pacquiao fan?! :scaredas:

Well done though, at least you did a detailed analysis for yourself before jumping on either bandwagon.

Smokin' Joe, Nov 16, 2011

#50
pejevan inmate No. 1363917 Full Member

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When you watch a fight where the underdog is 9 to 1 and then suddenly made the fight very very close, and showed brilliance in 3-4 rounds of the fight, posetrs will actually see it like it happenbed the entire 12 rounds. It is understandable.

pejevan, Nov 16, 2011

#51
Daft P Active Member Full Member

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Very good thread. Interesting to see that you actually have to give Marquez 3 very close rounds (4 & 9 & 10 ) in order to conclude he is the winner. That is interesting, because you could argue that the champion has to be favoured to some extent in those cases / the pressure fighter.

I saw Marquez winning, but this is the first time I can see a draw here.

Daft P, Nov 16, 2011

#52

KO Boxing Boxing Addict Full Member

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dangerousity said: ↑

Ok, I will skip the clear rounds and only score the close rounds to see who really won them. I'm scoring and watching these punches in slow motion right now, pausing when I need to and not missing a single punch so without a doubt this is as unbiased scoring as it can get. BTW if you are gonna dispute something here, please watch it in super slow motion, pause at the exact moment and correct me if I'm wrong.

Clear rounds:
Pac - 6
JMM 2, 5, 7, 8

Round 1:
Pac:
1.48 power
1.37 power (2 jabs may have landed previous to that)
1.11 jab
0.29 power
0.08 1-2 ( I think only the jab landed)
0.05 jab (JMM throws combinations which Pac slips)

JMM:
1.34 jab
1.24 left hook to body (looks blocked or slipped) If someone has HD version, slow mo and pause to see for yourself.
0.28 jab (maybe blocked)
1.10 bodyshot x2
1.11 jab
0.01 bodyshots x2 (1 looks low)

Difficulty in scoring some shots landed on Pac is that Pac blocks to defend, hard to tell if a punch gets through sometimes. Most of the time I give JMM the benefit of doubt. JMM pulls away from the punch so easier to tell. IMO a clear Pac round. The punches he landed was clear and his straight left even caused the red mark on Marquez nose as Lampley pointed out. JMM didnt land a clear power punch to Pac's head, just 5 bodyshots, 1 which looked low and 1 looked blocked.

10-9 Pac.

Round 2:
Clear JMM.

19-19

Round 3:
Pac:
2.32 Jab
2.28 Power (off balance left hand)
2.23 Power (straight left)
2.14 Power (straight left)
1.55 Jab
1.51 Power (Left to body)
0.53 Power (Straight left)
0.34 Jab
0.24 Jab and straight left barely land as JMM pulls away from it
0.15 Power (Straight left to head)
0.09 Power (Perfect right hook counter)
0.02 Power (Another right hook over JMM jab)

JMM:
2.28 Power (great uppercut)
1.58 Jab
1.53 jab
1.37 Power (left hook to body)
1.35 Power (Right hand following from a blocked uppercut)
0.58 Power x2 (Right hand followed by left uppercut)
0.48 Jab
0.47 Jab
0.40 Jab (To body)
0.19 Power (Left hook hits Pac's back)
0.02 Jab

1.25 The view is blocked by the ref but Lampley comments JMM landed a right and Pac landed a left.

Both landed the same amount of punches, difference is Pac was landing power punches to JMM's face, JMM landed mostly jabs and some half blocked bodypunches. Lampley also comments that Pac's counter right was the best punch of the fight so far, and Pac landed that twice. Pac's round.

29-28 Pac

Round 4:
Pac:
2.27 Jab
2.27 Power (Straight left)
1.35 Jab
1.29 Jab
1.28 Jab
1.23 Power (left hook)
0.56 Power (Maybe blocked cant tell)
0.38 Power
0.33 Power (Perfect lead left then slipped)
0.31 Power (Lead left)
0.23 Jab
0.05 Jab
0.05 Power (Left after jab)

JMM:
2.42 Jab
2.35 Power (I dont know if the left hook landed or not from the angle but gonna say yes anyhow)
2.08 Jab
1.46 Power (left hook)
1.37 Jab (to body)
1.34 Jab
1.29 Power (Straight right to head)
1.21 Jab
1.16 Power (Straight to body)
0.54 Power (Left hook to body)
0.52 Power
0.12 Power (Straight to body)
0.07 Power (Left hook top of head)
0.05 Power x2 (I think JMM lands the first uppercut followed by a clean right)

This was a very close round. Pac was landing some clean left and then slipping JMM's counters but IMO that last power punches landed by JMM to end the round seals it for him. I've noticed that JMM is landing a lot more bodypunches, mostly straight ones too so I'm not sure how the judges scored those. JMM's round.

38-38

Round 5:
Clear JMM

48-47 JMM

Round 6:
Clear Pac

57-57

Round 7:
I didnt watch this in slo-mo but its clear its Marquez's round. Pac had his moments in last minute but got outlanded in the 1st 2 minutes.

67-66 JMM

Round 8:
JMM clear if I can recall, unless someone wanna dispute this and I will go watch it in slo-mo.

77-75 JMM

Round 9:
Pac:
2.22 Power (Left hook)
2.12 Power (Lead left)
2.07 Power (Lead left exchanged for JMM's jab)
1.55 Jab
1.36 jab + Power ( Hook to body)
1.33 jab
1.25 Power (right hook)
1.12 Jab (Off the lead left and short jab step to side)
0.53 Power (Right hook)
0.50 Power (Lead left)
0.49 Power (Left hook inside combination)
0.47 Jab
0.30 Jab
0.29 Power (Right hook)
0.26 Jab (leaping jab)
0.20 Power (Lead left)
0.11 Power (Left hook)

JMM:
2.28 Power (First shot blocked followed by right hand that gets through the guard although Lampley comments Pac blocked both.)
2.16 Power (Right hook)
2.07 Jab
1.59 Power
1.57 Power x2 (Left hook to body, uppercut, blocked right hand)
1.15 Power (Grazing hook from a combination trade)
0.55 Power (left hook lands inside a combination)
0.50 Jab
0.46 Power (Perfect overhand right)
0.31 Power x2 (Uppercut and right down the middle)
0.20 Jab
0.11 Power (Lead uppercut)

Close round. Pac looked great towards end of round, doing his usual jumping around and punches from all angles but JMM was dodging all and moving away perfectly.

This is one of those rounds that could really go either way, Pac landed more but IMO JMM looked better in his combinations. Not all of them land but Pac would stand and block the punches, when JMM lands its a lot clearer and Pac's hair bounces. When Pac lands, JMM is moving away from it taking away the force. I'd have to give it to JMM.

87-84 JMM

Sidenote, surprisingly, my stats agree with the compubox numbers for that round.

Round 10:
Pac:
1.50 Power (right hook)
1.47 Jab
1.40 Power (uppercut)
1.36 Power
1.28 Power (Right hook)
0.55 Power
0.52 Jab
0.46 Jab
0.11 Power (lead left)
0.10 Power (Right hook)
0.08 Jab
0.06 Jab
0.04 Power + Jab (Not sure if the first str8 left landed or JMM pulled away from it)

JMM:
2.45 Power
2.14 Power
1.50 Power (Straight right)
1.36 Power
1.34 Power x2 (JMM catches him in a combination)
1.18 Jab
0.55 Power
0.30 Jab
0.22 Power
0.09 Power (To body)
0.04 Power (Left hook)

Again like round 9 very close round. They both landed the same amount of power punches, I think JMM's was clearer but Pac landed more overall and was pressing the attack. Could go either way and I'd call it EVEN but pushed to choose, I would go with JMM's cleaner shots over Pac's aggression and output.

97-93 JMM

Round 11:
Pac:
2.27 Jab'sh
2.16 Power (clean lead left)
2.10 Power (straight left to body, obstructed by ref partially but Lampley calls the shot)
2.05 Power (Straight left lands in 4 punch combination)
2.04 Power x2 (Right hook followed by a partially blocked uppercut)
1.59 Jab
1.52 Jab (Reaching)
1.27 Power (perfect hook as JMM leads in with a right)
1.19 Power + Jab (Reach left hand followed by a right jab)
1.17 jab
0.54 Power (right hook over jab)
0.32 power (small left inside but he was partly off balance due to being hit by JMM's right)
0.13 power (leaping lead left)

JMM:
2.12 Power (Bodyshot that lands on Pac's chest/arm)
2.02 Power (Left hook)
1.59 Power (grazing uppercut)
1.51 Power
1.24 Power x2 (uppercut + right hand combination)
0.35 Jab
0.33 Power x2 (right hand grazed followed by a left hook)
0.24 Jab
0.13 jab (Not sure if this landed, Pac was moving away)
0.06 Power (clear right hand that goes through the partial block)

This one was still a close round but nowhere near as close as 9 & 11. Pac won this one, he landed more and was landing clear punches too, JMM looks to have taken this round off and did most of his work last minute of the round.

106-103 JMM

Round 12 coming up. And a few people syaing round 8 wasnt a clear JMM, I'll go through that next.
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:good Good post. And from a Pac fan too. I hope others follow suit and stop following just a boxer and start following boxing.

I appreciate this kind of stuff.

Sorry if you've already posted your round 12 score card, but I'm interested to know whether you thought Marquez won 116-112 or 115-113.

I personally scored it live 116-113 for Marquez, but the even round was more a Marquez round than a Pac round. Even giving it to Pac would still have JMM up 115-113.

This was BY FAR the most dominant and easiest fight to score of the entire trilogy, and it goes to JMM.

KO Boxing, Nov 16, 2011

#53
EnterTheDragon Well-Known Member Full Member

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This content is protected

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There's also the
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of punches, which can fool many people in the mid to upperdeck.

Pac's got pretty long hair, so when his head snaps back from a punch, there's a visual que that COULD suggest that it landed harder than it did. Pac being so
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also adds to the visual intensity.

Take the above pictures... Pac lands a CLEAR right hook, but his hair is all over the place, but Marquez's short hair doesn't show much of that. From afar could look like he ate a punch to get his in.

Put Marquez in dreadlocks and you will see that Pac landed a LOT more than it seemed.

EnterTheDragon, Nov 16, 2011

#54
Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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Why would anyone score a fight in slow-motion? Why!

Addie, Nov 16, 2011

#55
Badlok Boxing Junkie Full Member

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Addie said: ↑

Why would anyone score a fight in slow-motion? Why!
Click to expand...

i score Ruiz-Holeyfield in slo-mo .....wait it wasn't in slo-mo atsch

Badlok, Nov 16, 2011

#56

Brauer Well-Known Member Full Member

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EnterTheDragon said: ↑

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

There's also the
This content is protected
of punches, which can fool many people in the mid to upperdeck.

Pac's got pretty long hair, so when his head snaps back from a punch, there's a visual que that COULD suggest that it landed harder than it did. Pac being so
This content is protected
also adds to the visual intensity.

Take the above pictures... Pac lands a CLEAR right hook, but his hair is all over the place, but Marquez's short hair doesn't show much of that. From afar could look like he ate a punch to get his in.

Put Marquez in dreadlocks and you will see that Pac landed a LOT more than it seemed.
Click to expand...

Stop trying to sound smart. Everyone knows your a dumb****

Brauer, Nov 16, 2011

#57
dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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Cableaddict said: ↑

You're trying to use LOGIC with *******s?

You're more delusional than they are! (but kudos for the analysis.)

--------------------

Question: How many landed shots did you give each fighter in the 12th round? I ask because that's the one round I personally studied carefully in slo-mo, and saw 3 for Manny (maybe 4) and around 14 for JMM, yet so many people are giving that round to Pac, even some who agree JMM won the fight.

I'm a former amateur boxer (retired 31-2) and I THINK I know how to score a hit. Granted, scoring in the pros is different from the amateurs, but still, a totally-blocked punch and/or one that hits nothing but air, those still don't count, right? I mean .... RIGHT?

I'm having a VERY hard time with this.
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Compubox had JMM landing 6 in total for that fight, how could you possibly have 14. I have gone through it in slo-mo, pausing, rewinding and slowing it down even more and no way I could have missed that many punches.

dangerousity, Nov 16, 2011

#58
DobyZhee VIP Member

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f*ck this ****, JMM clearly won. DOn't need to write an essay saying otherwise.

DobyZhee, Nov 16, 2011

#59
megavolt Constantly Shadowboxing Full Member

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Addie said: ↑

Why would anyone score a fight in slow-motion? Why!
Click to expand...

Well technically a person with the perfect eyes would score the same as a person who had scored perfectly in slow motion...:think

megavolt, Nov 16, 2011

#60

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