Pacquiao v Marquez III......on second thoughts.....

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by s23041983, Nov 17, 2011.


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  1. s23041983

    s23041983 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The general population of boxing fans who saw the Pacquiao/Marquez fight last week are of the opinion that Marquez beat him and he was cheated. Up until now I would agree, and ill tell you why I have changed my mind...


    ...simply put, I just dont like Manny Pacquiao. I personally like good, technical boxing and Manny is an overrated brawler in my eyes. Now I was convinced that Marquez had done more than enough to win last week and ever since, I have felt really bitter about it, but today I was watching Hopkins v Calzaghe and, being one of the people who thought Calzaghe clearly won, I thought to myself ''how can I say Calzaghe clearly won but Pacquiao didnt?''

    Basically what im saying is that Calzaghe beat Hopkins because he landed the most punches and took the fight to him, even though Hopkins looked more in control and seemed to outbox him at times. Last Saturday Pacquiao out-landed Marquez, took the fight to him and won because of this, even though Marquez was in control and out-boxed him most of the time.

    It seems you can outbox a fighter for 12 rounds but if you dont land more punches you probably wont win. As they say, 'to hit and not be hit' is the key!
     
    s23041983, Nov 17, 2011
    s23041983, Nov 17, 2011
    #1
  2. cesare-borgia

    cesare-borgia Übermensch in fieri Full Member

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    I dont think compubox is a fair source to go on with both of those fights, it seems kind of off.
     
    cesare-borgia, Nov 17, 2011
    cesare-borgia, Nov 17, 2011
    #2
  3. s23041983

    s23041983 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    But can we say that compubox is not a reliable source in general or just not reliable after controversial fights? And if its not a reliable source, do we have a more reliable one? :think
     
    s23041983, Nov 17, 2011
    s23041983, Nov 17, 2011
    #3
  4. sosolid4u09

    sosolid4u09 4 8 15 16 23 42 banned Full Member

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    i see where your coming from but your comparison breaks down after round 6 of the hopkins-calzaghe fight.

    Hopkins started off really well, countering calzaghe. however after round 5 or 6, Hopkins began to visibly tire. he was just spoiling and landing maybe one or two counters per round, while calzaghe was actively landing. Marquez kept up his countering and clean hitting throughout the entire fight.

    Your first instinct is correct. Marquez beat Pacquiao. and Calzaghe beat Hopkins. both close but clear decisions
     
    sosolid4u09, Nov 17, 2011
    sosolid4u09, Nov 17, 2011
    #4
  5. s23041983

    s23041983 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I havent actually seen the judges scorecards from the Hop v Calzaghe fight. Any links?
     
    s23041983, Nov 17, 2011
    s23041983, Nov 17, 2011
    #5
  6. sosolid4u09

    sosolid4u09 4 8 15 16 23 42 banned Full Member

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    im not sure what the judges scored it. but on my personal scorecard i had calzaghe pretty much sweeping the second half of the fight,.

    this wasnt the case for pac/jmm because marquez kept up his countering and movement all 12 rounds

    anyways heres the official card

    This content is protected
     
    sosolid4u09, Nov 17, 2011
    sosolid4u09, Nov 17, 2011
    #6
  7. shaunster101

    shaunster101 Yido Full Member

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    I don't think compubox is reliable for scotring fights. Its a nice bit of info to have, but it shouldn't be involved in the scoring of fights.

    For a start overall 12 punch stats are useless, as fights are scored on a round by round basis. SO, you might outland your opponent overall, but you could have been outboxed for 8 rounds, then heavily outland your opponent in the last 4. You'd lose 8 rounds to 4 despite outlanding your adversary.

    Also, compubox is just measured by a human counting punches in the fight. They're as prone as anyone else to error.

    It also doesn't take into account clean and effective punching. For example, fighter a could land 10 glancing, cuffing or weak punches in a round, whereas his opponent could land 6 hard, clean, head snapping punches etc
     
    shaunster101, Nov 17, 2011
    shaunster101, Nov 17, 2011
    #7
  8. KnuckleUp99

    KnuckleUp99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    :think good perspective bro. I agree. I still had it for Juan but you're absolutely correct in your theory. This was a close fight. "Quantity vs Quality".... To win a fight you don't have to look pretty.... But most appreciate beauty and from a technical stand point Juan has the "classic boxer" style that more seem to appreciate.

    It's also possible to disagree, respectfully.
     
    KnuckleUp99, Nov 17, 2011
    KnuckleUp99, Nov 17, 2011
    #8
  9. s23041983

    s23041983 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I suppose when your a judge and you cant look back in slow-mo, you have to make a decision whether a punch landed or not, even though your not sure. It must be hard for the judges when people like Calzaghe and Pacquiao are throwing so many punches.
     
    s23041983, Nov 17, 2011
    s23041983, Nov 17, 2011
    #9
  10. sosolid4u09

    sosolid4u09 4 8 15 16 23 42 banned Full Member

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    it makes life easier when hopkins isnt throwing anything back for the majority of rounds though.
     
    sosolid4u09, Nov 17, 2011
    sosolid4u09, Nov 17, 2011
    #10
  11. elchivito

    elchivito master betty Full Member

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    I respect your decision, but to me the fight resembled more to Williams-Martinez I than to Calzaghe-Hopkins because the latter Bhops was in full control the first half then clearly dominated the 2nd. Pac-Jmm 3 went back and forth through out the whole fight. No doubt Manny threw more punches, but the question is how many he really landed. I personally think a draw was fair. Manny just seemed to tag Marquez where Marquez snapped Mannys head back over and over. The excuse of Jmm looking more battered than Manny right after the fight doesnt prove much when at the postfight conference Mannys face was equally battered and Jmms face usually gets like that after every fight. Manny says hes the peoples champ well the majority think he lost if he thinks he won clearly he shouldnt be labeling himself as such.
     
    elchivito, Nov 17, 2011
    elchivito, Nov 17, 2011
    #11
  12. s23041983

    s23041983 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    His reaction at the final bell suggests he thought hed lost.
     
    s23041983, Nov 17, 2011
    s23041983, Nov 17, 2011
    #12
  13. JunitoJab

    JunitoJab Antagonist Full Member

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    People blindly follow compubox as their defence
     
    JunitoJab, Nov 17, 2011
    JunitoJab, Nov 17, 2011
    #13
  14. sosolid4u09

    sosolid4u09 4 8 15 16 23 42 banned Full Member

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    only when it suits them
     
    sosolid4u09, Nov 17, 2011
    sosolid4u09, Nov 17, 2011
    #14
  15. kingmurkaveli

    kingmurkaveli Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I have to be honest...I didnt see Pacman land more than marquez...thats a lie....I didnt see Pacman land ANYTHING...All he hit was air...I watched the fight over yesterday, and Man the fight isnt even a draw...its not even close....It was a mismatch in favor of Marquez
     
    kingmurkaveli, Nov 17, 2011
    kingmurkaveli, Nov 17, 2011
    #15
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