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Where does Wladimir Klitschko rank among ATG HWs?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Joe_MacKenzie, Nov 17, 2011.

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Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

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Nonito Smoak, Nov 17, 2011

#136

grouche Guest

Jack said: ↑

All of it and no matter how biased some of you lot are, I know you can't disprove a thing I say. A lot are ranking a guy in the top 10 before he's beaten a great fighter, despite the fact he's lost to 2 average fighters and a journeyman. That is impossible to do.

You can be huge fans of him if you like but the fact is, history won't judge Wlad as a top 10 heavyweight. Whether he scrapes into the top 15 is in doubt. There is no argument that Wlad should be rated over a guy like Wills.
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:rofl:rofl
Bitter Brit, that's all there is.

grouche, Nov 17, 2011

#137

Blake Rayne Fat Cuban Aficianado Full Member

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behind every American and British champ, every guy in the nfl, nba and every member of the GGOC.

Blake Rayne, Nov 17, 2011

#138
Steenalized Boxing Junkie Full Member

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About 12, so I voted top 10-15.

Steenalized, Nov 17, 2011

#139

KINGOFTHE1ROUND Guest

Only difference is that Holmes had more balls and good chin.

KINGOFTHE1ROUND, Nov 17, 2011

#140
Joe_MacKenzie Boxing Addict banned

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skier47 said: ↑

You're a good poster. I like how you won't let anybody twist your words and keep getting the discussion back on point. It's hard to argue with a guy who states the facts in favor of his position and won't allow fellow posters to cloud the issue and bring up all kinds of nonsense. These debating skills are a pleasure to see and unfortunately are rarely seen these days of raw emotion and petty insult trading.
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Thanks, mate. :good

Joe_MacKenzie, Nov 18, 2011

#141
Jack Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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chitownfightfan said: ↑

I was thinking more like Chamber, Brock, and Haye, with Valuev, Brewster and Byrd exchanging titles between losses, similarly to the 60s, 70s, early 80s, 90s, and early 2000s.

The last time in history we has a dominant champ for more than 5 yrs consecutive was the 50s:-( Wlad will likely continue until more than 10yrs, which would be unprecedented.

And having watched over 300 black and white fights, I can say that Julius Long would be considered the absolute GOAT 555(555KOs)-1(DQ) had he fought pre 1960.
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What an awful poster you are. I don't think you're even a boxing fan.

Jack, Nov 18, 2011

#142

Jack Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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I've mentioned his name a few times in this thread, so if anyone wants to defend Wlad being ranked ahead of Harry Wills, make an argument for it. There is no justification for that type of placement and yet some are clearly ranking Wlad ahead of him.

Jack, Nov 18, 2011

#143
Malden 006 Full Member

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Joe_MacKenzie said: ↑

- All Haye's cruiserweight opponents were older than he was, as were all his heavyweight opponents. In fact, all of them except Maccarinelli were significantly older.

- All of the cruiserweight opponents he stopped (except for Fragomeni) had been stopped before.

And lets not forget, Haye only had TWO wins in world title fights at cruiserweight.

In my opinion, Haye is not an ATG cruiserweight. Had he fought people like Adamek and Cunningham (who had never been stopped and were still in their respective primes) I'd rate Haye's cruiserweight resume higher. But knocking out the glass-chinned Maccarinelli doesn't mean much.
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Lasse Johansen hadnt been stopped either before he ran into Haye :deal I also consider Haye top10 ATG in Cruiserweight. In the high end of the list, too. Not that it says much considering the young history of the division.

Malden, Nov 18, 2011

#144
itsa huge bitch Boxing Junkie Full Member

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Jack said: ↑

I like how you absolutely ignore the fact I mentioned beating a great fighter You must have seen it and yet because you're that desperate to make one **** post after another, you ignored it.
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what atg did lenno beat sure they wer all past it (aparently) so that dosnt count surely...just going by hater logic by the way not mine..lewis is a ****ing legend

itsa huge bitch, Nov 18, 2011

#145
itsa huge bitch Boxing Junkie Full Member

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Jack said: ↑

I probably mentioned it because 3 losses are relevant. Haye's loss is also relevant, but it's not a deciding factor and nor is Wlad's loss. A loss that early in a career isn't important, just like a loss at the end of a career isn't.
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is pac not an atg because he lossed a few times and got a few dodgy decisions??

itsa huge bitch, Nov 18, 2011

#146

itsa huge bitch Boxing Junkie Full Member

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bremen said: ↑

McCall beat both Lewis and Holmes. Does this make him ATG? :huh
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aparently so..and byrd beat holy so that makes him an atg and wlad beat byrd sooooooooooooooooo...also byrd beat vitali wlad beat byrd...anyone else see whats going on here??

itsa huge bitch, Nov 18, 2011

#147
Jack Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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You're changing my argument into "every boxer who beat a great is therefore great himself". That isn't what I said.

I ask again though. Name me a single fighter who hasn't beaten a great, lost to average boxers and is considered great himself. Just one.

Jack, Nov 18, 2011

#148
Jack Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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itsa huge ***** said: ↑

what atg did lenno beat sure they wer all past it (aparently) so that dosnt count surely...just going by hater logic by the way not mine..lewis is a ****ing legend
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If we are talking about Berbick beating Ali or Tyson losing to McBride, then, no, that doesn't count but Lewis beating Holyfield? Absolutely.

Jack, Nov 18, 2011

#149
Joe_MacKenzie Boxing Addict banned

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Jack said: ↑

You're changing my argument into "every boxer who beat a great is therefore great himself". That isn't what I said.

I ask again though. Name me a single fighter who hasn't beaten a great, lost to average boxers and is considered great himself. Just one.
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David Haye. He's considered an ATG cruiserweight by at least one person. :yep

He lost by TKO to a faded 40 year old who had been stopped several times before.

Joe_MacKenzie, Nov 18, 2011

#150

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