How can a fighter become a great?

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by Jack, Nov 21, 2011.


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  1. Jack

    Jack Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I was discussing Wlad in the general forum, arguing he can't be considered a top 15 heavyweight of all-time because he has neither beaten a great fighter or dominated without blemishes like, for example, the man in my avatar. A few people disagreed with me but wouldn't state their reasons why.

    So let me ask you. How can a fighter become a great? Is it simply a question of quality of opposition and/or dominance or is there any other way?
     
    Jack, Nov 21, 2011
    Jack, Nov 21, 2011
    #1
  2. dftaylor

    dftaylor Writer, fanatic Full Member

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    Quality of opposition, dominance of the chosen division or over a number of divisions, and how you win your fights. Wlad is a very very good HW, but would he be so good in the 90s?

    My feeling is not. The losses he has are to really weak opposition and his winning performances are rarely stirring. He's cautious and methodical which is only impressive when you're facing constant dangermen.
     
    dftaylor, Nov 21, 2011
    dftaylor, Nov 21, 2011
    #2
  3. sportofkings

    sportofkings Boxing Junkie banned

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    Wlad can become great in the same way Larry holmes became great, although Larry's opposition was still slightly better than Wlad's.
     
    sportofkings, Nov 21, 2011
    sportofkings, Nov 21, 2011
    #3
  4. WalletInspector

    WalletInspector Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    They love the Klitschko's probably being the main one.
     
    WalletInspector, Nov 21, 2011
    WalletInspector, Nov 21, 2011
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  5. LP_1985

    LP_1985 JMM beat Pac-Man 3 Times Full Member

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    by Deed Poll
     
    LP_1985, Nov 21, 2011
    LP_1985, Nov 21, 2011
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  6. White Tiger

    White Tiger Boxing Addict banned

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    Its all to do with the manner in which you win fights.

    You can be a great fighter with a weak underachieving legacy. (Roy Jones)

    Or you can be a average fighter with a good overachieving legacy - (Carl Froch)

    Even when Roy Jones was beating up Taxi Drivers and Garbage Collectors - you could see he had real special athletic ability and was way more talented than say Floyd Mayweather for example.
     
    White Tiger, Nov 21, 2011
    White Tiger, Nov 21, 2011
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  7. Jack

    Jack Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah, I agree with this.

    I think Wlad's a good fighter but in a weak era when there are no greats around to beat, he would need to be a lot more dominant than he has been. He's obviously picked up a few good wins but the losses he's had were to very poor opposition, and it spoils his legacy. If he'd only lost to Purrity, I think he'd have a case to become a great himself but the losses to Brewster and Sanders are very bad and will always prevent him from being listed amongst the divisions all time greatest.
     
    Jack, Nov 21, 2011
    Jack, Nov 21, 2011
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  8. Jack

    Jack Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :lol: Probably.

    Villa looked flat tonight, mate. The first time I've seen them in a while and I was surprised at how poor they looked. Are there many calls for McLeish to be sacked from Villa fans?
     
    Jack, Nov 21, 2011
    Jack, Nov 21, 2011
    #8
  9. Tommy O C

    Tommy O C VIVA LA MEXICO!!!! Full Member

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    I don't think Wlad is a top 15 he but I do think Vitali is. Vitalis only losses are through injury or disputed, the way he returned after so long and took apart a reasonable champion and my belief that there's not 10 heavyweights through history that could beat him

    In Wlads losses he has lost decisively, always looks uncomfortable under pressure and is always one clean shot away from being hurt.
     
    Tommy O C, Nov 21, 2011
    Tommy O C, Nov 21, 2011
    #9
  10. White Tiger

    White Tiger Boxing Addict banned

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    Vitali crushed Hide.

    He bashed Lennox Lewis about.

    The manner of his performances suggests he is a great Heavyweight - top 15 or even top 10 ever lived.
     
    White Tiger, Nov 21, 2011
    White Tiger, Nov 21, 2011
    #10
  11. WalletInspector

    WalletInspector Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    We've been calling for him to be sacked since before he was appointed! :D
     
    WalletInspector, Nov 21, 2011
    WalletInspector, Nov 21, 2011
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  12. WalletInspector

    WalletInspector Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    So did Chingangu, can we put him in the top 20 too?
     
    WalletInspector, Nov 21, 2011
    WalletInspector, Nov 21, 2011
    #12
  13. SkillspayBills

    SkillspayBills Mandanda Running E-Pen Full Member

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    Probably look for something like this..

    -A number of top class wins (Against elite/world class fighters)
    -Timing of victory's. Ie. against good/great fighters in peak
    -Manner of victory's
    -Top of respective divisions for a number of years. (Dominant)
    -Special quality's/ability to adapt *something that sets a fighter apart from rest*

    Sadly for Wlad the top of my list he doesn't have many who fit that bill...
     
    SkillspayBills, Nov 21, 2011
    SkillspayBills, Nov 21, 2011
    #13
  14. atberry

    atberry Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Overcoming adversity
     
    atberry, Nov 21, 2011
    atberry, Nov 21, 2011
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  15. Zavi

    Zavi Guest

    When did Monzon retire?

    Did he ever move up?

    Was Nino Benvenuti left handed orthodox?
     
    Zavi, Nov 21, 2011
    Zavi, Nov 21, 2011
    #15
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