The best elite\near elite fighters by division...with the least overall speed

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lora, Nov 21, 2011.


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  1. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    Maybe he looked slow because he was in with Dokes, who was feckin' rapid.
     
    Addie, Nov 21, 2011
    Addie, Nov 21, 2011
    #46
  2. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    Napoles is borderline

    If he had retained his 135-140 speed, or even what he had in his first 2 or 3 Welter title bouts i'd have left him off.I thought he dropped off physically quite quick as a champion though.

    Still had good reflexes and bounce\spring in his legs for a while, but his foot movement remained effective due to strong fundamentals\balance and distance control rather than having quick feet, he knew perfectly how to use little halfsteps to get his shots off and then a slip of the head and another half-step to get out of the way. His hands were about as quick as most typical world class Welters.Just with superior timing and skill in his delivery than most.


    Some other welters and Middles that could be considered for honourable mentions depending on how highly you rate them:

    Takeshi Fuji
    Carlos Hernandez
    saensek muangsurin
    Julio Cesar Chavez
    Juan Coggi
    Simon Brown
    John Stracey

    Koichi wajima
    Ki Soo Kim
    Maurice Hope
    Winky Wright
    Ayub Kalule
    Shane Mosley(for everyone that thinks he was still good at 154)
    Mike McCallum
    Julio Cesar Vasquez
    Fernando Vargas
    Iran Barkley
    Kelly Pavlik

    Also Yuri Arbachakov at Flyweight.Lost a lot of his hand and footspeed quite early, never had notable reflexes.I'd put Napole,Arbachakov and Kalule in the same category for speed strengths and weaknesses.Similar feet and all capable of being quick overall at one point in their careers, but never looked consistent speed-wise and didn't have more than typical raw handspeed for their weightclasses.
     
    lora, Nov 21, 2011
    lora, Nov 21, 2011
    #47
  3. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    Yeah, Kelly Pavlik looks like he's moving in slow motion.
     
    Addie, Nov 21, 2011
    Addie, Nov 21, 2011
    #48
  4. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    Ah, German Torres as well for Flyweight.Good steady big punching stalker, but he was like JLR with his hands.You saw his hooks coming every time.And then felt them crashing into your face if you were an out of shape Chang.

    Gushiken too wasn't particularly fast.He had more bounce and spring in his legs than YUh, Carbajal etc though.i'd put him in the napoles,arbachakov, kalule category.
     
    lora, Nov 21, 2011
    lora, Nov 21, 2011
    #49
  5. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing

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    Coggi ! Very well said lora, he is a very good mention.....certainly a slow fighter....
     
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Nov 21, 2011
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Nov 21, 2011
    #50
  6. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    Froch is painfully slow.I'm still amazed he's done as well as he has.Watching him in his early years was just brutal.

    Howard Eastman as well, though he never became more than the sum of the parts like Froch has.Maybe the slowest ever to challenge for the world middleweight title.
     
    lora, Nov 21, 2011
    lora, Nov 21, 2011
    #51
  7. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Oruzbeck Nazarov and Jimmy Paul weren't particularly quick of hand, but both were fine lightweights who carved out decent world titles reigns for themselves (Nazarov in particular)
     
    Drew101, Nov 21, 2011
    Drew101, Nov 21, 2011
    #52
  8. HawkFan16

    HawkFan16 Unshot/In My Prime Full Member

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    Antonio Margarito seems very slow of both foot and hand speed. He seems very ponderous in the ring, and his punches themselves seem looping and do not reach their target all that quickly (if they connect at all.)

    He got away with this by having a great chin and stamina for awhile.

    David Tua. A short, small heavyweight whose feet were just as heavy as his hands were. His handspeed was average, nothing great though.

    He succeeded in spite of that with devastating power and one of the best chins ever seen on a heavyweight.

    Kostya Tszyu doesn't seem to have tremendous hand or foot speed either from the tapes I've seen of him.

    He got around that with great technical skills, and a devastating and accurate right hand.
     
    HawkFan16, Nov 21, 2011
    HawkFan16, Nov 21, 2011
    #53
  9. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    German Torres was gonna be my choice for Flyweight, but it looks like you got to him.
     
    El Bujia, Nov 21, 2011
    El Bujia, Nov 21, 2011
    #54
  10. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    ............
     
    lora, Nov 21, 2011
    lora, Nov 21, 2011
    #55
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :deal
     
    McGrain, Nov 22, 2011
    McGrain, Nov 22, 2011
    #56
  12. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

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    :lol:
     
    DonBoxer, Nov 22, 2011
    DonBoxer, Nov 22, 2011
    #57
  13. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't think Napoles belongs in these discussions even if he wasn't the fastest among welterweights. There was still a clear speed difference between him and the likes of Cokes, Griffith or Lopez. When a man can get away with throwing double right hands, double left hooks and bolo punches, there is more than just technique at play.

    Much like an older Ezzard Charles, he could still showcase his speed at times even if he was very methodical and deliberate about his work the majority of the time.

    Having mentioned Ernie Lopez, he was about as slow as his brother. Made up for it with a good chin, work ethic and decent enough skills, although lacking in power compared to his brother.

    Surprised that Fullmer hasn't been mentioned yet, as far as handspeed that is. Very crude punching technique by any standards but it worked.
     
    TheGreatA, Nov 22, 2011
    TheGreatA, Nov 22, 2011
    #58
  14. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What isn't often mentioned is that in his day Napoles had another nickname aside from Mantequilla (butter). He was also ridiculed as the "butterball" by the media for blowing up to light heavyweight size in between his fights. He never needed to use this as an excuse though.
     
    TheGreatA, Nov 22, 2011
    TheGreatA, Nov 22, 2011
    #59
  15. frankenfrank

    frankenfrank Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Maybe that was d reason 4 his cuts ?
     
    frankenfrank, Nov 22, 2011
    frankenfrank, Nov 22, 2011
    #60
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