The best Hw's ever.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mattdonnellon, Nov 10, 2011.


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  1. Hattons Hook

    Hattons Hook Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Big Frank ?


    Edit, found him
     
    Hattons Hook, Nov 17, 2011
    Hattons Hook, Nov 17, 2011
    #91
  2. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    M.Spinks
    Witherspoon
    Tucker
    Douglas
    McCall
    Holyfield
    Moorer
    Tyson
    Lewis
    Bowe
    V.Klitscho
    W.Klitscho
    Byrd
    Thomas
    Tubbs


    I'M thinking the 15 above are in the top thirty, thoughts?


    Page
    Cooney
    Bey
    Norris
    Damiani
    Smith
    Snipes
    C.Williams
    Bruno
    Mercer
    Morrison
    Ruddock
    Akinwanda
    Mason
    Donald
    Grant
    Oquendo
    Golota
    Hide
    Rahman
    McCline
    Seldon
    Hunter
    Maskaev
    Valuev
    Ruiz
    Tua
    Ibeabuchi
    Kirk Johnson
    Peter
    Sanders
    Toney
    Chambers
    Povetkin
    Haye
    Brewster
    Briggs
    Chagaev
    Ibragimov
    Kevin Johnson
    Adamek
    Helenius
     
    mattdonnellon, Nov 17, 2011
    mattdonnellon, Nov 17, 2011
    #92
  3. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    M.Spinks
    Witherspoon
    Tucker
    Douglas
    McCall
    Holyfield
    Moorer
    Tyson
    Lewis
    Bowe
    V.Klitscho
    W.Klitscho
    Byrd
    Thomas
    Tubbs

    I'M thinking the 15 above are in the top thirty, thoughts?

    And the next 15 to fill the top 30?

    Ibeabuchi
    Mercer
    Ruddock
    Povetkin
    Page
    Cooney
    Rahman
    Ruiz
    Chagaev
    Tua
    Smith
    Bruno
    Toney
    Chambers
    Ibragimov


    and the rest;

    Bey
    Norris
    Damiani
    Snipes
    C.Williams
    Morrison
    Akinwanda
    Mason
    Donald
    Grant
    Oquendo
    Golota
    Hide
    McCline
    Seldon
    Hunter
    Maskaev
    Valuev
    Kirk Johnson
    Peter
    Sanders
    Haye
    Brewster
    Briggs
    Kevin Johnson
    Adamek
    Helenius
     
    mattdonnellon, Nov 18, 2011
    mattdonnellon, Nov 18, 2011
    #93
  4. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not saying i disagree, but it is interesting that you have McCall in the top bracket.

    Foreman is a big omission. I know he ducked a few guys, but i think he is in the top 30 quite easily. Larry Holmes does also.

    From your list, I would say that neither Toney or Chambers were anything better than decent contenders and would need to drop off.

    I never really rated Mercer, so i would drop him off the list. He always failed when the pressure was on to perform. And I really dont see tubbs as good enough to hold a guaranteed top 15 I dont think i would be likely to have him in top 30.

    Looking through the lists, I would sub them with Valuev and Brewster.

    Berbick is another who i think would have to make it in this time frame. Not sure who to drop though maybe out of Bruno who faied mostly despite some good prformances, ibragimov who hasnt done much and was never a real threat to the no1 crown or even Ibeauchi, who never really got much of a chance to stake his best claim.
     
    Boilermaker, Nov 18, 2011
    Boilermaker, Nov 18, 2011
    #94
  5. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Boliermaker, the omitted ones are in the 1952-81 era.
     
    mattdonnellon, Nov 19, 2011
    mattdonnellon, Nov 19, 2011
    #95
  6. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Okay, I see, is it one era only?

    I think they would get in solely on there work as old men, if not.
     
    Boilermaker, Nov 19, 2011
    Boilermaker, Nov 19, 2011
    #96
  7. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    And just going back to the Bill Farnan issue, and i am leaning towards maybe having him edgged out by Tom Lees, although i am undecided, I offer this article which has some interesting fights on Peter Jacksons record in 1883 which are not mentioned on CBZ. If these are correct, then it is safe to say that Jackson was a better scalp for Farnan than it first seems.
    http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/66932363?searchTerm=tom lees fight&searchLimits=
     
    Boilermaker, Nov 19, 2011
    Boilermaker, Nov 19, 2011
    #97
  8. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yeah, there are four rosters earlier in the thread.
    BTW iI'm reading up on Farnan and Lees as well and I'm getting converted, also don't forget Jiom Hall, very highly rated at the time too.
     
    mattdonnellon, Nov 19, 2011
    mattdonnellon, Nov 19, 2011
    #98
  9. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I have some of the early Jackson fights in his record in my book on Peter Maher, "The Irish Champion". The Haynes fights I have and the Dooley fight as a ND. I also have 3 early fights with Lees, one win for Jackson and two ND.
     
    mattdonnellon, Nov 19, 2011
    mattdonnellon, Nov 19, 2011
    #99
  10. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1 Ali
    2 Marciano
    3 Holmes
    4 Frazier
    5 Liston
    6 Foreman
    7 Norton
    8 Young
    9 Patterson
    10 Johansson

    11 Ellis
    12 Moore
    13 H.Johnson
    14 Terrell
    15 Machen
    16 Folley
    17 Quarry
    18 Lyle
    19 Bonavena
    20 Dokes

    21 Tate
    22 Coetzee
    23 Weaver
    24 Berbick
    25 Chuvalo
    26 Shavers
    27 L.Spinks
    28 Jackson
    29 Baker
    30 Cleroux

    Near misses;

    Valdez
    Martin
    Bugner
    Cooper
    Cl.Williams

    Somebody must hate this list, takers?
     
    mattdonnellon, Nov 20, 2011
    mattdonnellon, Nov 20, 2011
    #100
  11. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1 Lewis
    2 Tyson
    3 Holyfield
    4 V.Klitscho
    5 Bowe
    6 W.Klitscho
    7 Witherspoon
    8 M.Spinks
    9 Douglas
    10 Tucker
    11 McCall
    12 Moorer
    13 Byrd
    14 Tubbs
    15 Thomas
    16 Ibeabuchi
    17 Mercer
    18 Ruddock
    19 Povetkin
    20 Page
    21 Cooney
    22 Tua
    23 Rahman
    24 Ruiz
    25 Chagaev
    26 Smith
    27 Bruno
    28 Toney
    29 Valuev
    30 Chambers

    People that know the period better than i, please wade in and also consider those outside my 30.
     
    mattdonnellon, Nov 21, 2011
    mattdonnellon, Nov 21, 2011
    #101
  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Big Cat Williams should definitely be on the list. I would replace Cleroux, and Jackson with Nino Valdes and Cleveland Williams. Hurricane Jackson has no business on the list, especially. I thought Cleveland Williams beat Ernie Terrell twice(I have the film) and Nino Valdes in his prime blasted our Jackson in 2 rounds

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xucbDkwcH5A&feature=related[/ame]
     
    SuzieQ49, Nov 21, 2011
    SuzieQ49, Nov 21, 2011
    #102
  13. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No real problem with Williams in over Cleroux, I'm from the Williams is very overrated camp based on less than 5 rounds in two losing fights v Liston, but to be fair a good draw with Machen and a stoppage over a green Terrell is better than Bob's best effort in breaking about even with Chuvalo.
    I know Jackson had a terrible style (or to more correct, no style) but it was effective for a while, Valdez I think too is overrated based on his undoubted but erratic potential but I feel in an attempt to redress this over-estimation of Valdez and Williams I have gone too far the other direction, so a revised 21-30;

    21 Tate
    22 Coetzee
    23 Weaver
    24 Berbick
    25 Chuvalo
    26 Shavers
    27 L.Spinks
    28 Baker
    29 Cl.Williams
    30 Valdez
     
    mattdonnellon, Nov 21, 2011
    mattdonnellon, Nov 21, 2011
    #103
  14. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1 johnson
    2 dempsey
    3 jeffries
    4 fitz
    5 langford
    6 corbett
    7 jackson
    8 mcvea
    9 wills
    10 jeannette
    11 burns
    12 maher
    13 sharkey
    14 goddard
    15 sullivan
    16 hart
    17 slavin
    18 willard
    19 martin
    20 o'brien
    21 mc coy
    22 ruhlin
    23 mc carthy
    24 choynsky
    25 gibbons
    26 gunboat smith
    27 fulton
    28 ed smith
    29 childs
    30 Farnan


    This content is protected


    1 Joe Louis
    2 Gene Tunney
    3 Jersey Joe Walcott
    4 Ezzard Charles
    5 Jack Sharkey
    6 Max Schmeling
    7 Tommy Loughran
    8 Max Baer
    9 Jimmy Bivins
    10 George Godfrey
    11 Primo Carnera
    12 Billy Conn
    13 Bob Pastor
    14 Joey Maxim
    15 Melio Bettina
    16 James Braddock
    17 Steve Hamas
    18 John Henry Lewis
    19 Lou Nova
    20 Tommy Farr
    21 Arturo Godoy
    22 Maxie Rosenbloom
    23 Tiger Jack Fox
    24 Lee Q Murray
    25 Clarence Henry
    26 Elmer Ray
    27 Roland Lastarza
    28 Rex Layne
    29 Johnny Risko
    30 Buddy Baer

    This content is protected


    1 Ali
    2 Marciano
    3 Holmes
    4 Frazier
    5 Liston
    6 Foreman
    7 Norton
    8 Young
    9 Patterson
    10 Johansson
    11 Ellis
    12 Moore
    13 H.Johnson
    14 Terrell
    15 Machen
    16 Folley
    17 Quarry
    18 Lyle
    19 Bonavena
    20 Dokes
    21 Tate
    22 Coetzee
    23 Weaver
    24 Berbick
    25 Chuvalo
    26 Shavers
    27 L.Spinks
    28 Baker
    29 Cl.Williams
    30 Valdez

    This content is protected


    1 Lewis
    2 Tyson
    3 Holyfield
    4 V.Klitscho
    5 Bowe
    6 W.Klitscho
    7 Witherspoon
    8 M.Spinks
    9 Douglas
    10 Tucker
    11 McCall
    12 Moorer
    13 Byrd
    14 Tubbs
    15 Thomas
    16 Ibeabuchi
    17 Mercer
    18 Ruddock
    19 Povetkin
    20 Page
    21 Cooney
    22 Tua
    23 Rahman
    24 Ruiz
    25 Chagaev
    26 Smith
    27 Bruno
    28 Toney
    29 Valuev
    30 Chambers
     
    mattdonnellon, Nov 22, 2011
    mattdonnellon, Nov 22, 2011
    #104
  15. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Above is my take on the top 120, rated by periods, with a bit of gentle prodding from other posters. What would be good now would be informed opinion and criticism so that we can revise and reach a bit of consensus on this list.
    Some interesting ratings;
    Ruddock at 18 in the forth period and Dokes at 20 in the previous era.
    Moore at 12 in that 1952 on group with Bivins at 9 in the 22-51 gang and Jeannette and Godfrey both at 10 in the two older periods.
     
    mattdonnellon, Nov 22, 2011
    mattdonnellon, Nov 22, 2011
    #105
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