Question about Duran & Arcel

freddie brown put in a lot of work with duran , he worked with arcel and duran . just using arcel is not really right

 

I always think a great fighter will be great no matter who trains him. He would have always been great regardless of Ray Arcel. Freddie Roach gets more credit than he should by training Pacman. I think a great fighter does know when a trainer compliments him, which is what Roach does for Pacman. But a great fighter is always destined to be great.

 

Duran always said that Brown did the gym work with him while Arcel came on board 2 weeks befor the fight to plan out the stragity with them both.

 

yeah thats what i read somewhere also arcel said the he or brown never really told duran what to do in the ring or how to fight but arcel was a very polite man when talking to reporters so i would think he always played his and browns role down a little .

duran would probably have been great no matter who trained him but that should not take away any credit from arcel and brown as we will never know

 

Roberto was asked this very question. Its in Ron Fried's outstanding book Cornermen.
In re Freddie Brown Roberto acknowledged it was he who did the day to day training along with a Panamanian who's name escapes me.
His praise for Freddie was on a very high level.
When it came to Arcel Roberto said, and I quote "For him I have no words"
Its an outstanding tribute and the highest i can think of. To him Arcel was a deity.
So to answer your posting, absolutely Arcel brought out the best in Duran.

 

just found my book out to put the same thing :good

 

That book is a frekkin jem!

 

Arcel himself said somehing like you can have all the knowledge in the world but if your guy can't fight you're just another bum in the park.

Duran would have been great probably just not as great.

 

Arcel always said that Duran was a natural fighter. "Don't change a thing" he claimed to have said to Brown.

But Brown did "change" things about Duran. He corrected his balance and the trajectory of his shots, and technique, he taught him moves and little pivots -how to step and twist and throw a right hand if you miss the left hook. He taught him the Fitzsimmons shift and 100 other tricks that guys would do in the 20s and 30s.

Brown should actually be credited a little more than Arcel for taking what was fixing to be brawn and making that brawn brainy. Brown taught Duran an awful lot when Arcel was working his 9-5. He built all that beautiful stuff you see that MAG hides his eyes from. Brown brought discipline into Duran's life too. Duran had no discipline to speak of before Brown.

Arcel did strategy. He would deconstruct the opponent and come in with the master plan. Both were critical -Arcel for strategy, Brown for technique and tactics. Arcel for the big picture, Brown for the snapshots.

This trio is metaphysical proof of how important trainers are. Duran had 2 1/2 brains in his head. Without those two old Jews, Duran would have been Graziano II. He'd have taken a lightweight belt from a one-dimensional champion and lost it to DeJesus or Buchanan or someone with more levels than Duran was expected to have.

HA: Without Arcel and Brown, MAG would be right about Duran.

 

Yeah, I'm sure Tommy Hearns would've been moulded into the fighter he became by someone other than Steward. :huh

 

Arcel's big comeback was the Frazer-Locche masterpiece in March 1972. By then, Duran had already stopped world champions Ernesto Marcel and Hiroshi Kobayashi, bouts we have footage of.

Yes, he definitely would have been a youthful champion without Arcel, but whether or not he would have become an ATG with the kind of longevity and resume he eventually obtained is another matter.

 

I'm not sure who taught him to box in the first place, how many trainers he's had and....so forth. His first trainer may have been the most influential in teaching him technique, but who knows

 

I largely agree, Marvin Hagler being an excellent example of your theory. I will add that a trainer can help take a mere brilliant fighter into the category of greatness. And could help turn a top 30 all-time great into a top 20 all-time great.

Just imagine how much better Hagler could of been with say a Futch or Benton in his corner, rather than a Petronelli...