gene tunney vs liston....

Because Tunney wasn't fighting as a heavyweight until 1925. Anyone who gets in the ring with Greb as many times as Tunney did does not need to be questioned about his toughness.

 

Though I am still picking Liston, Tunney had good reach (the same as Holyfield's) and a GREAT jab. And Tunney was able to punch very hard when his hands were healthy, which they admittedly were not very often as his career progressed.

 

No one's questioning his toughness, just his matchmaking. He clearly ducked/avoided quite a few fighters. He also drew the color line.

 

This is completely nullified by Listons far superior reach, and even better jab

 

1. Sonny was past his prime

2. Cassius Clay was considerably taller/bigger than Gene Tunney

3. Cassius Clay was much better than Gene Tunney

 

It's always styles and Gene had the speed, conditioning, brains and chin to give Sonny fits ... Liston had issues going side to side ... straight, no problem ... I like Gene to steal a decision ... interesting match up ...

 

And we're not talking about the Liston that Clay fought (the one who hardly trained a lick for that fight, to quote those around him). We're talking prime Sonny, who had good hand speed in his prime and was fairly light on his feet (watch the films).

 

:roll: This is getting ridiculous.

 

People like to be selective in their reasoning. The 1958-1960 Liston is clearly a superior heavyweight to Tunney. Not to mention what black fighter did Tunney ever fight? What 215lb huge punching heavyweight did Tunney ever fight? What heavyweight with an 84" ATG left jab did Tunney ever fight?

 

Really? It was 6 or 7 months past what was arguably his greatest performance.

3 inches taller, 4 inches reach, 13 pounds. Not gargantuanly bigger.

The 1964 Clay was not better than Tunney. No way, no how. Give it a year or two and you have an argument.

 

clay was significantly bigger than tunney.bigger,faster,better.

 

The Clay that beat Liston wasn't better than Tunney, not by a long shot.

 

liston win is better by a long shot than a dempsey win.
clay has all the advantages over gene.hes bigger 20 pounds,hes taller,hes faster,has a better chin,is a better boxer.better package all around

 

Clay was 14 pounds heavier than Tunney was for Dempsey II, did not have a better, more proven chin at the time (having been dumped by Banks and Cooper just the fight before Liston), and was comparatively a very incomplete boxer. He had no body attack, was skittish, and did not lay into his attack unless his opponent was completely outmatched. There was a reason he was an underdog.

And if bigger, taller, better chin meant everything, someone should have told Joe Frazier.

 

he was 20 pounds heavier,check out boxrec if you don't believe me.tunney 189.5,ali 210.5
he proved his chin in the fight,taking liston's punches and not going down,unlike tunney who got kd from dempsey.and liston is obviously the bigger puncher
in this fight bigger,taller means,cause tunney isn't going to outbox sonny cause sonny has a better jab and a much longer and harder one,great timing,and tunney def. isn't going to outbrawl liston.

and like i sad,tunney is like a smaller inferior version of ali