Has wlad done enough such that he's began a new universally accepted lineage?

Being totally pragmatic about it, you need to factor in:

Alphabet titles mean extra purse money, sanctioning fees and are a tool the media (TV) use to sell fights to the casual fan.

They are in the short and medium term, not going to go away.

What is needed is for someone to unite the boxing media to create a new title. This unity would be noted by the mainstream and would be a start on educating the casual fan about who really is the best, and thus challengers for the title of best fighter in a weight division.

 

Already there, my man. At least in theory.

 

Holmes didn't unify and that hurts his legacy a bit. He was clearly the best HW during his time, though. Wlad did unify, though. That's one of the differences of them, though.

 

Agreed. Too many belts, possibly too many divisions (Much less a problem).

I agree, but because the issue exists that's not to say they aren't some form or another an achievement. They're not world champions, and belts don't define fighters, their record does. So in a sense I agree with you, but wouldn't penalize the mess of boxing to diminish a fighter's achievement. At the same time, belts are so saturated that it's significance is being diminished, unfortunately... making this an issue to bdgin wtih.

I agree with Frazier being the "man" and unified lineal champ at the time he beat Ellis. It's not wrong to consider him the man or even the "champ" before that moment of lineage, however it's unofficial. Frazier was clearly the best HW and proved that in the Ellis fight.

 

Unify? UNIFY WHAT?!

 

I take it that you would agree that no actual harm would be done if we ceased and desisted from calling Zaurbek Baysangurov a "world champion." It may hurt his feelings but then, honesty does that sometimes.

 

Vitali is not Wlad's rival. I think it has been said times and again that they will not fight. Vitali may be #2 in rankings but he is not #1 on the contenders list while Wlad is the champ.

 

I call mine "successions" because there are rules to succession. A lineage describes something else -and suggests more blood-relations. This new lineage and branches of lineages in one division just doesn't work for me. I have devised "Rules of Succession" and appreciate any and all critique, so keep at it!

Nah. I gotta do better than that, don't you think?

Mayweather would in fact be the world champion if he didn't take his ball and go home in 2008. Did he want to avoid Cotto and Margarito? I can't see that he wasn't -he's a damn cherry-picker. Anyway, he retired and blew it. That's his problem. Throne abdicated.

Now, I see the temptation to install Floyd on the throne based on his impressive defeat of Shane who beat Margarito who beat Cotto. His claim is certainly better than Pacquiao's. I'd like to see him as the champ particularly because he told the sanctioning bodies to go to hell and fought him for no silly belt.

But the system doesn't allow it because the top two Ring-ranked fighters in the division have to fight it out to fill a vacant throne. And it is Sulai-ish to read him onto the throne backwards by changing the rules.

All he has to do is fight the other best WW in the world. And that is Pacquiao. Why is that too much to ask? He's been avoiding him for too long as it is. We can give him a paper crown and tell him the gold one comes after he beats "the little guy." Money understands the value of gold.

Now, think about the future. The system will force 1 to fight 2 and fill the vacant throne. Fighters will do this if the media stops licking butts and ignores them (T Booze-- not abolishes, because we can't. But we can ignore them).

As to Robinson. The hell they had it easier back then! That's kookey-talk! Those guys fought all the time and even though Robinson avoided Murderers Row, he was still fighting serious, top guys every other week.

Robinson's winning the WW championship was legit though not perfect. I allow for what I call near-universal acclaim between 1921 and 1963.

We do that today and Wlad is an example. And the nonsense continues because the media and the public have no compelling reason to ignore the sanctioning bodies. Read the sports section -they actually state where a contender is rated by the WBC. Are they idiots? Those rankings are worth a pile of dung.

If they are ignored and it becomes a common mantra that says vacant thrones are only filled when 1 fights 2, then what happens? We get what we want! Sense! And the fanbase would expand because being a champion would slowly begin to mean something. But it WILL NOT for as long as you hear commentators and reporters using three capital letter in a row to fill up space or play willing dupes.

 

I don't give a second thought to their feminine fraternal sensitivities. Vitali is a rival to the throne and this thread and the whole world knows it. Just because he doesn't want to fight his baby brother is irrelevant to his status as THE rival.

Any argument justifying their not fighting is maudlin.

Wlad is the premiere HW in the world. Absolutely.

 

I accept it, as girlish as it may be. But the throne has to remain vacant as a consequence, even though I accept him as the top guy in the division.

 

I congratulate him for being a one-time world champion.

Guess how many true championships Hearns has?

 

I think i could accept Wlad as being the Champion, particularly when he beat Byrd. But if he is the world champion, and if Vitali does not want to fight him, shouldnt Vitali be prepared to come otu and say i am not a world champion and i never will be while Wlad is around. If there was a clear acknowledgment, you could probably forgive the non fighting. But while there is a clear second claim (and Vitali has this) then it must be vacant until they fight or one falters. Even one faltering might not be enough.

And Lufcrazy, as for tradition, Tradition is that the claim must be earned before being claimed, though sometimes it does crystalize and backdate. Sullivan had to earn it by beating the best contenders (under different rules sometimes). Burns earned it by beating the other Claimants (O Brien) and ultimately when he lost to Johnson and Johnson christalized it by beating Jeffries. I do think/ hope that Wlad/Vitali will slip up and whichever does , the others reign will christalize and they will be recognised as champion for these forgotten years. Would be kiind of funny/ironic if Mormeck emerges as the true saviour.