Has wlad done enough such that he's began a new universally accepted lineage?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Dec 2, 2011.


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  1. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Who the best fighter is is as subjective as lufcrazy says and his idea is better designed to "determine" that, because it is subjective.

    Identifying the champion has to minimize subjectivity. It has to be rooted in a system that is as objective as possible. It also has to be sensible and clear.

    For instance...

    - Ranking Willis over Dempsey H2H is hypothetical and arguable.

    - Ranking him over Dempsey in terms of accomplishments requires an examination of evidence on paper.

    - Ranking him as "champion" because you think he was better than Dempsey either in terms of H2H or accomplishments is a stretch.
     
    Stonehands89, Dec 11, 2011
    Stonehands89, Dec 11, 2011
    #166
  2. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well said and I agree with you. However, when I hold is simply this: the throne is vacant, until Pac and May or whoever is 1 & 2 duke it out. That is a different matter than who is better.

    I absolutely could give an opinion right now as to who the best WW is without requiring Pac and May to ever fight. BUT -the throne is empty.
     
    Stonehands89, Dec 11, 2011
    Stonehands89, Dec 11, 2011
    #167
  3. Nay_Sayer

    Nay_Sayer On Rick James Status banned Full Member

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    So who is your #1 LWW now?
     
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 11, 2011
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 11, 2011
    #168
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Not completely made my mind up but i'm leaning towards peterson . Ortiz, cayo and khan is an amazing resume over the last 3.

    It's close because bradley beat him but I don't think anyone can rival his form in the division.

    As I said it's close.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 11, 2011
    lufcrazy, Dec 11, 2011
    #169
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    It is noteworthy that 70% of the people on this board think that Wlad has started a new lineage.

    If that is consistent with the opinion of boxing fans generaly, then his claim is highly likley to be accepted in the light of history.
     
    janitor, Dec 11, 2011
    janitor, Dec 11, 2011
    #170
  6. Nay_Sayer

    Nay_Sayer On Rick James Status banned Full Member

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    Lol.

    How can you rate Peterson over a guy who has already beat him?

    Them must be some good drugs you're smoking over there.
     
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 11, 2011
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 11, 2011
    #171
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Khan was my number 1; Peterson beat Khan to take top spot (helped by the blatant duck job of bradley)

    As I said though, my mind isn't made up.

    Bradley fighting casamyor certainly doesn't help matters though, hopefully he'll fight a worthwhile lww next although in reality he's gotta be favourite to land a fight against mayweather now so will probably move up to clarify matters.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 11, 2011
    lufcrazy, Dec 11, 2011
    #172
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    completely agree with this janitor.

    The last dubious claim like this was probably larry holmes and history does remember him as a champion in the majority of cases so I imagine wlad will be remembered as champion in a similar way.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 11, 2011
    lufcrazy, Dec 11, 2011
    #173
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    If I accepted the principle that Khan was the previous #1, then I would accept Peterson as the new #1 even if I disagreed with the decision.

    Anything else would be chaos.
     
    janitor, Dec 11, 2011
    janitor, Dec 11, 2011
    #174
  10. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    Gotcha. Do you think most should, or have the right to based on your second point? What's your position on that?

    That's the perfect way to put it. I can run with this.
     
    PetethePrince, Dec 11, 2011
    PetethePrince, Dec 11, 2011
    #175
  11. Nay_Sayer

    Nay_Sayer On Rick James Status banned Full Member

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    I can certainly appreciate the way you completely *ignore* the fact that Tim owns a win over Lamont.

    Hope you're enjoying whatever it is that you're smoking over there...
     
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 11, 2011
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 11, 2011
    #176
  12. Nay_Sayer

    Nay_Sayer On Rick James Status banned Full Member

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    Chaos is exactly what lufcrazy is promoting.
     
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 11, 2011
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 11, 2011
    #177
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    no silly boy :lol: I do not ignore that victory, infact a few posts ago I said it was that very victory which led to me believing bradley was the best lww in the world until he ducked khan.

    I don't smoke anything but judging by your comprehension skills maybe you are infact intoxicated? or just silly?

    I'll break down the last few years for you:

    Pacman beats hatton to become the best.
    Pacman leaves the division and bradley beats peterson to become the best.
    Bradley ducks khan who knocks out judah to become the best.
    Peterson beats khan to become the best.

    Either way my rankings aren't official and whilst I do appreciate the stock you put in them, I think you take what I say a little too seriously.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 11, 2011
    lufcrazy, Dec 11, 2011
    #178
  14. Nay_Sayer

    Nay_Sayer On Rick James Status banned Full Member

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    Yep, you're definitely smoking some top shelf stuff.

    Exactly HOW do you determine who ducked who? As far as I'm concerned, Khan ducked the Maidana rematch. If you're going to start accusing people of ducking - without ANY evidence - and use that in your ratings criteria then Khan ducking the Maidana rematch should also figure into that equation.
     
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 11, 2011
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 11, 2011
    #179
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    It was the statements by bradley about the time not being right for the khan fight and about how he couldn't afford to lose with a potential floyd fight around the corner.

    Khan ducking maidana would make more sense if he didn't actually fight and beat maidana.

    If you think khan ducked maidana and infact lost the maidana fight then i'd hope you'd factor that into your rankings.

    Remember, the sport is subjective.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 11, 2011
    lufcrazy, Dec 11, 2011
    #180
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