In honor of Boilermaker's retirement: Johnson vs. Jeffries, prime for prime

Well i voted, and that is as best as i can do to be honest. both fighters bring too much to the table.

 

When you look at the facts, a draw is the only sensible conclusion!

 

I think johnson is just a superior fighter. I see him as quicker, smarter and stronger.

James has a punch on him but johnson's defence should stand him in good stead.

 

I used to think that Jeffries might have taken this one in his prime.. But after a few years of listening to some of the arguments, reviewing Johnson's resume and hearing some things about their actual fight, I'm not so sure anymore.. Yes, Jeffries was long finished when he fought Johnson, but frankly I don't think that fight had to go 15 rounds. After watching a little bit of footage and reading some stuff on that fight, it almost seems as though Johnson had carried him for some of that bout, and could have ended it sooner.. Johnson fought a lot more upper tier guys and had the right style to neutralize Jeffries attacks... A great fight when both were at their best, but I voted for Jack by decision.

 

I have never bought into the idea that Johnson carried Jeffries.

I think that what we saw was a cold and methodical destruction, with some psychological warfare thrown in. Johnson wanted to get out of there as quickly as he could, without risking defeat through undue agression.

By his standards, it was a prety business first destruction.

 

All three of these assertions are highly debatable. Jeff was renowned for his strength and speed. As far as ringsmarts, I would go with Jack, but I'm sure some would disagree. Jeff was a mighty quick study.

 

I don't know what "festschrift " means, but I'll go for Johnson by dec.
Very tough fight for both men.

 

The veritable festschrift of festschrifts for the old boilermaker this one - this one always intrigues me - like Dempsey-Tunney, Louis-Marciano, etc this fight I think couldn't be more different in Jeffries' prime - Jeffries would be a big BIG threat every second I think - this would be a hell of an awkward fight for Johnson - I think he would be forced to fight at full pace and if he didn't he would be in danger - and I think Johnson would know that he's never going to outlast Jeffries over anything 25 rounds so he'd have to know before going in he needs to try and knock him out within that - he managed it versus the tired old man version but the strapping young powerful fast bulldozing version who fought under 400 arc lamps for 25 brutal rounds against Tom Sharkey would be a different propersition altogether - still would favour Johnson to pull it out but there'd sure be some hairy moments with Jeffries pressing all the time

 

Don't know that I agree with the idea that Jeffries allways fought aggressively,I think it was usually the opposite,with him laying back waiting to counter.
It would no doubt be a gruelling fight but not necessarily an intense one.

 

If the fight took place in 1906 and you put a gun to my head and said place a wager, i would bet Jeffries. But I could see any permutation taking place, with either one KO'ing the other, or a draw, or even Johnson decision. Valid arguments could be made for any result. I think it would be close and competitive, and likely controversial if there was a decision, with both taking punishment along the way. Jeff's face would be a mess. Johnson's ribs would be broken. Jeff might have gotten hit more, but he would administer the harder blows and be more of the aggressor. Johnson would clinch a lot. Johnson would weigh about 195, but Jeff would be about 225.

Let's face it, at the end of the day, in real world 1906, if Jeff goes the distance, the referee probably awards him the close decision or no worse than a draw. So the better bet is on Jeffries. But then if you like to bet the heavy but live underdog, which Johnson would be at that time, and don't mind the risk-big-to-earn-big proposition, especially when the underdog had significant defensive skills and speed, then you take Johnson because he would be a very live and underrated underdog.

Honestly, these debates are fun, but they are also foolish. When two great fighters meet, and yes they were both great in their own way, you cannot really know who would win, unless they fight it out.

 

I enjoy your posts, and wish they were more regular.

I do not always agree with them, but they are informative and considered , one point though, the thread does say prime for prime,would you say Johnson was in his prime in 1906?

 

He probably was in his prime, or close to it. I suppose he improved somewhat over the years, naturally, with experience. But he was already 28 years old in 1906. He was certainly a live top contender who wanted a title shot, but couldn't get it because of his race. He remained in top shape for many years, and probably didn't start slacking until after Jeffries, when he finally got the fight that he had always wanted. It looks to me as if he got fat in Europe.

I somewhat analogize him to Holmes. After the Cooney fight, I don't think Larry was as motivated or trained as hard again. He was still a heck of a fighter and could win fights, but he was never again quite as sharp.