Do judges see what fans don't or do fans see what judges don't?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Auracle21, Dec 18, 2011.

  1. Auracle21

    Auracle21 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    There have been a myriad of times where the judges' scorecards are greatly varied from the fans. A recent example is the Ward-Froch fight in which many thought that Ward dominated and barely lost a couple of rounds. 2 Judges gave it 115-113 scorecards. So what do you thimk?
     
  2. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Obviously we get much better views, replays and camera angles so we can easily change the scoring of a round as we often see key points in the round again. If they get it wrong by 1-2 rounds I don't normally have a problem, bit 3 rounds or more I start to get a bit suspicious with judges.
     
  3. Brauer

    Brauer Well-Known Member Full Member

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    We get a better view maybe judges should watch a fight in a TV monitor or some ****.
     
  4. Cableaddict

    Cableaddict Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    judges see what fans don't:

    Big piles of cash delivered to their hotel rooms by the promoter, complete with a little note telling them who should win.
     
  5. Hermit

    Hermit Loyal Member banned

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    I have a much easier time gaging a fight that I'm closer too. The pop of the gloves, etc.
     
  6. Tranquillity

    Tranquillity Active Member Full Member

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    I just think the judges don't want to be seen as too bias and narrow the score card in giving the win to their homeboy. the brit judge knowing he didn't have that problem judged it like it should. no big deal about it.
     
  7. des3995

    des3995 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I try to keep this in mind when i compare my scoring to judges. I can imagine that the difference in POVs can affect how a fight is scored. But, there are occassions that a POV can only account for so much. Such as Williams-Martinez I and that 119-110. Or the entire Williams-Lara fight, Santa Cruz- Casamayor, etc.
     
  8. boy-wonder

    boy-wonder Active Member Full Member

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    i disagree with the above posts that you get better views from the TV. the judges are standing ringside for god sakes. how do you get a better view from TV just because you have the ability to change the angle? even when you watch on TV, changing the angle or play speed can change your perception of the initial action. But you don't score replays or slow motion.

    i think boxing is one of the most widely misunderstood when it comes to judging.

    1.) effective aggressiveness
    2.) ring generalship
    3.) punch quality vs quantity

    all of the above comes into play and the judging can be totally subjective.

    alot of the times fans can get easily swayed by biased commentary on tv, or compubox numbers, or the tv unofficial scorecard. but an example of where the fans can see something that judges won't would be in the peterson vs khan fight.

    The layman boxing fan is not always able to assess, for example, the damage that lamont peterson body shots are doing to khan on TV. if khan is sticking and moving, throwing arm punches on the glove - people will say he was controlling the tempo? But if the body shots that peterson landed on khan is what forced khan to get on his bicycle and peterson is the aggressor, perhaps its peterson's tempo and not khan's? khan landed alot of punches in the fight but alot hit the gloves and were not placed. WHen peterson was able to get his punches off, they were landing cleanly and you can see the impact they had to force khan to change his game plan. therefore, judges can easily score the round to peterson based on 1.) effective agressiveness and 2.) ring generalship. at times khan used his speed to out maneuvre peterson, but it was not sustainable enough for him to actually be in control. therefore, many of khan's punches were discounted by the judge based on the criteria of what creates a winning round.

    its very normal for fans to get swayed by volume. volume, doesnt mean quality work and this is why you see big controversy in many fights. the controversy is unavoidable but this is why i appreciate guys like floyd and ward bc they set the standards of what boxing should be about when using skills to control the tempo. pacman as a volume punchers still shows that you can throw punches and bunches and still land quality shots.

    the judges can feel what is going on with the two fighters in the ring on who is winning the battle and it doesnt always mean the figher who throws the most punches will win.

    in ward-froch fight, there were a few rounds were froch started to let his hands go and it forced ward to back up a lot. even though some of them didn't land, it made ward have to wait a lot and change his tempo and to reset before getting quality work. i don't always agree with the judgement as i had ward winning virtually every round, but sometimes there is ebb and flow in the ring that fans on tv can't see....
     
  9. Diggersan

    Diggersan Boxing Addict Full Member

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    a little bit of both problably, you have a judge who only has one angle on the fight, you can't be too hard on them.
     
  10. Diggersan

    Diggersan Boxing Addict Full Member

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    join the other idiots you will fit right in.
     
  11. KO KIDD

    KO KIDD Loyal Member Full Member

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    maybe at times the judges see more than we might but a bad call is a bad call

    judges do see at one angle so if they are at a fighters back they may not see what actually lands

    we get zoomed in many angles with punch stat graphics replay and commentary
     
  12. Peril

    Peril The Scholar Full Member

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    Yes of course. They see stacked envelopes of cash and future opportunities to work for the promoter of the more popular fighter.
     
  13. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Loyal Member Full Member

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    Maybe.

    I think the judges have a lot of external pressures that we, the fans, don't. In the case of those two 115-113 judges, I think they realised at the halfway mark that Froch had no chance of winning enough rounds back, and so decided to be extra generous in awarding him rounds so that the final scorecards wouldn't be so wide; subsequently portraying the idea that judging in America isn't as biased towards American fighters like most claim.
     
  14. Hermit

    Hermit Loyal Member banned

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    I haven't seen the score cards. Do they give Carl the later rounds uniformly?
     
  15. Reppin501

    Reppin501 The People's Champ Full Member

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    Probably a little bit of both...I think judges should, if they don't already, have monitors and be able to watch and/or see the fight more clearly and completely. That said there are other things they see or hear that television can't capture.