Has wlad done enough such that he's began a new universally accepted lineage?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Dec 2, 2011.


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  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    What clear set of rules? Who decided these rules.

    He vacated his status as champion and for me that's enough; for you it isn't.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 19, 2011
    lufcrazy, Dec 19, 2011
    #301
  2. Nay_Sayer

    Nay_Sayer On Rick James Status banned Full Member

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    Yeah, but Vitali unretired in 2008 - putting himself back into contention. Why do you ignore this inconvenient fact?
     
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 19, 2011
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 19, 2011
    #302
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Nothing inconvenient about vitali returning imo.

    As I said, he took himself out of the running to challenge wlad. The next best challenger stepped up in chag and that's good enough for me.

    It's all largely irrelevant in this present era the way things are anyways.

    Only two men have any claim to being champ and both agree wlad is the champ.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 19, 2011
    lufcrazy, Dec 19, 2011
    #303
  4. Nay_Sayer

    Nay_Sayer On Rick James Status banned Full Member

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    How is Chageav the "next best" challenger when Vitali had unretired and scored a KO over the consensus #2 HW in the world *prior* to the Wlad Chageav fight?

    Exactly how does that work?
     
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 19, 2011
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 19, 2011
    #304
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    By beating ruiz and valuev chag was an obvious choice for #3 imo.

    Vitali was number 2 but declared he had no interest in fighting wlad so wlad took on the next best in chag. The next best after 2 is 3.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 19, 2011
    lufcrazy, Dec 19, 2011
    #305
  6. Nay_Sayer

    Nay_Sayer On Rick James Status banned Full Member

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    You seem to be ignoring that fact that 2 > 3.

    Wlad is gonna have to beat Vitali if he wants to lay claim to the Lineal title.
     
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 19, 2011
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 19, 2011
    #306
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Yes naysayer, 2 is greater than 3. Well done.

    I'm not ignoring anything, i'm merely concluding that seeing as vitali didn't want to fight wlad, the best matchup out there was wlad v chag and that's what we got.

    Judging by these poll results you're in a minority, but only time will tell!
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 19, 2011
    lufcrazy, Dec 19, 2011
    #307
  8. Quick Cash

    Quick Cash Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The same set The Ring says it adheres to. A lineal champion loses recognition only upon defeat, retirement, or vacation, and no other circumstance.

    He obviously did not lose or retire. He vacated the WBO's version of the championship, but it's difficult to ascertain if that consequently disqualifies him from claiming the lineal title because he made no reference of it anywhere at anytime. This is not 50 or 60 years ago when you could take these things at face-value.

    If, for example, Ricky Hatton could have defeated Mayweather, he would probably then vacate his 140-pound title to allow for a rematch to happen (I think the IBF stripped him anyway). Now, say, everything goes his way a second time, the next logical step would still be an encounter with Pacquiao at light welterweight. Would Hatton still be considered lineal champion under these circumstances? The example is extreme, maybe even impossible, but the fights did happen. Hatton-Pacquiao fought for none of the four alphabet soup titles. What's the difference between vacating and being stripped when these bodies are involved, really?
     
    Quick Cash, Dec 20, 2011
    Quick Cash, Dec 20, 2011
    #308
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    So you're going on about the ring championship?

    Erdei never held that belt. Infact the ring had a champion other than erdei all through his spell as lineal champ (up until he vacated infact) the two championships seemed to coverge again when hopkins rematched pascal.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 20, 2011
    lufcrazy, Dec 20, 2011
    #309
  10. Quick Cash

    Quick Cash Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No, I said it has the same rules as The Ring. The Ring does not follow its own rules sometimes, that's why they are not always one and the same.

    You didn't know how to correctly map the lineal title so I gave you the rules.
     
    Quick Cash, Dec 20, 2011
    Quick Cash, Dec 20, 2011
    #310
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Who decided it has the same rules as the ring?

    There is no correct way to map lineage that's the whole point.

    The title is entirely mythical. Some trace it regardless of retirement and vacation. Some trace it up until retirement and vacation.

    I'm of the latter group. I'll accept erdei until he vacated.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 20, 2011
    lufcrazy, Dec 20, 2011
    #311
  12. Quick Cash

    Quick Cash Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Who said Erdei vacated the lineal championship?
     
    Quick Cash, Dec 20, 2011
    Quick Cash, Dec 20, 2011
    #312
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Sorry I thought you already knew this, I understand your confusion now.

    Erdei himself vacated his crown and stated his intentions to move to the cw division.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 20, 2011
    lufcrazy, Dec 20, 2011
    #313
  14. Nay_Sayer

    Nay_Sayer On Rick James Status banned Full Member

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    The Ring magazine handing it's trinket to Roy Jones is one of the biggest jokes played on the sport in recent memory.
     
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 20, 2011
    Nay_Sayer, Dec 20, 2011
    #314
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Whilst I think roy jones was a better lhw, you're right: giving dm the ring belt would have surely helped with a 5 belt unification on the line and above all else it goes directly against their morals because any halfwit can see that hill v maske was clearly the top two.
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 20, 2011
    lufcrazy, Dec 20, 2011
    #315
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