Sonny Liston vs Jack Dempsey? Both in their prime

Dempsey wins even though he is more white

 

Dempsey in a tough battle but Jack's speed and animal instinct take its toll on Liston after a good start for Sonny....Jack comeback hard for a stoppage around 7-8 rounds

 

Sonny Liston by KO1

 

The downgrading of Jack Dempsey reaches a new depth.

 

which averages out with the blind fanboys of dempsey. You'd think Dempsey beat countless ATG in his career with the way some talk of him... oo wait.

 

junior,contrary to what some posters think, I have no axe to grind.To think I always favor Dempsey over most anyone, works BOTH WAYS. These same posters have ANYONE over Dempsey ! THEY are the one's having an agenda, for they CONTRADICT the OPINIONS of writers, boxers, trainers who saw him prior to going Hollywood for La Dolca Vita. I believe that people who saw Dempsey, Langford, Johnson, Greb, Kid Norfolk RINGSIDE, are closer to the truth than today's NAYSAYERS, EIGHTY years after the fact. In my time I feel and KNOW for example ,the real essence of Sugar Ray Robinson at his BEST, for I have seen Robinson ringside several times at his best, and fighters after him. To use a metaphor I can describe the taste of a cup of cofee,1 hour later than several years later. And so with Dempsey. Why do I love him and Joe Louis so much ?. Because they at below 200 pounds, had the great combination of handspeed ala middleweights,combined with great torque power of the bigger ,slower dreadnaughts of today. Dempsey in particular had what was described as "fast twitching " muscles when in his prime. From the waist up he had the upper frame of a 210-20 torso, rough, tough with a kill or be killed ,NEVER give up attitude...Not for nothing was he called a "man-killer".
Would I favor anyone over a prime Dempsey ? Over 15 rounds, I think his greatest danger would be against the Louis of Max Baer Vintage,with his inhuman combination punches. I truly think that the young Mike Tyson, with his powerful and quick uppercuts,and devastating early round punches
would pose a danger for Dempsey, or ANYONE for that matter. Liston, and George Foreman, pose less of a danger than Louis and Tyson, as they were not as fast on the attack. I think that Ali, because of his style against the quicker and less ponderous Doug Jones and Henry Cooper, would be especially bothered by a bobbing weaving left-hooker as Dempsey was, as Dempsey never cut in his bouts,as Henry Cooper did, and hit twice as hard.
I think as experts who were polled in Marciano's reign, and chose the much faster Dempsey over the slower Marciano,because Marciano missed with half his punches, whilst Dempsey seldom missed, and needed but 6 inches for his ko blows...Of course amongst top heavyweights we must expect the unexpected, but I choose the most LIKELY scenario in my mind's eye...
Cheers jr.
P.S. Today people are obsessed with weight. In the Dempsey days when there were 8 weight divisions,fighters spotted some opponents 8-10 pounds ,up to heavyweight division, were trained by constant fighting to
be as lean as possible, so they could fight often 15 round fights ,without
dragging extra weight along. For a simple example. A Max Baer, who had the widest shoulders ever,fought a 20 ROUND bout in the sun against the
rugged Basque Paolino Uzcudun in 1931. Baer weighed about 205 pounds for that bout. He had a frame that today would be lugging along 220-30 pounds. Would he have been better ? No, just HEAVIER...Our grandpa's knew best....

 

you said that already, burt, bro

 

you're the best burt. I rarely even look at the forum anymore because it is moronville. Like no chin cooney vs. prime Frazier . cooney was a ring coward who would not fight a ranked fighter to earn a shot, yet these bozos have hin beating Frazier in a punchup. Assinine. and that is just one example recently. So, goodbye friend. Have a good life. It was good to see someone else w/ experience of actually going to fights like myself and talking of what they saw live and in time also, as opposed to the youtube boxrec guuys. You obviously have also read and studied the sport in many books thicker than the words on a computor, as I have and know your stuff. Keep fighting friend, but I'm done.

 

P, what should I do ? Capitulate to all who call Dempsey a bum, a stiff, too small, ad nauseam, etc ? When I RESPOND to a THREAD asking who would win a bout between the prime Liston and Dempsey, I somehow surmise, I have a right to disagree with younger posters, without you or anyone else disparaging my opinion...I respect your darn opinion, and P ,because I fervently hold an opposite view of Dempsey than you and most posters
should RESPECT my view as well. P, do you ever realize that I and others
who hold my view, might very well be RIGHT ? Do I ever say to a poster who holds little opinion of Dempsey, "you said that already ".? Were I to abandon ship,and not respond to your views, HISTORY might be distorted
by fearing to vent my views on ESB, because of ridicule I constantly receive
by many posters on ESB.? Maybe I should just fold my damn cards ,and keep my opinions which I hold dear, to myself, and just be a silent observer. Better for my BP...:hi:

 

Morlocks, I'm a very sentimental guy, and your post saying adios, brought a lump in my throat. I hope you reconsider, as ESB has lost some fine and thoughtful boxing afficionado's, who for a myriad of reasons are no longer with us... I have loved boxing history, seen so much at Stillman's gym and at ringside bouts during the golden age, and now feel like an outcast... So M, good luck friend and keep punching, for we will prevail...:good

 

Liston by early knockout. Jack Dempsey would come bull rushing in and Liston would take him out. Too much strength, uppercuts, and power for Jack Dempsey to handle.

 

It would come down to a battle between the Liston liniment and the Demspey plaster.
Hard to tell which would get there first.

 

You are not an outcast. You are a treasure.

Like you, I can confidently say I have no particular agenda but seeking the truth, and feel very pleased to see that, though my experience with the greats is limited to film--never comparable to your unique privilege as an eyewitness--my independent assessments mirror yours:

For almost thirty years I had read about the heavyweight greats, their exploits and abilities, envisioning them huge in my mind in their most glorious performances and in fantasy bouts against each other.

When I finally got my hands on VHS heavyweight-great footage, Jack Dempsey (along with Joe Louis and Mike Tyson) caused the greatest impression on me: despite the poor-quality visuals, I was mesmerized by his savagery, swiftness, two-handed attacks and one-punch power, refined defensive skills and heart. Everything I had read about him was true.

Film has made me a Dempsey fan.

Was the Mauler invincible? Hell, no. No man is, but, I agree that Louis and Tyson, with their combination of speed and power, are more formidable than relatively ponderous sluggers like Sonny Liston and George Foreman.

Moreover, Jack Dempsey was a giant killer; Liston was at heart a bully; Liston proved that, when in trouble, he was not above folding and withdrawing with a whimper; Dempsey proved himself a competitor who rose to the occasion, kept his composure and absolutely thrived in battle.

Mike Tyson has always been bananas for Dempsey! His opinion, which mirrors ours, must be respected.

Don't remember where I read it, but I believe it was two gents, in a bar perhaps, watching Tyson's TV destruction of Pinklon Thomas. The younger said to the old-timer, "Just like Joe Louis, huh?" The elder replied, "Not really. He fights more like Dempsey. But then,"--with something like pity in his voice--"you never saw Jack Dempsey."

:bbb

 

Patterson was faster than Dempsey, the same size and threw a great, underrated left hook.

Liston ain't no mummy along the likes of an old, inactive cowhand like Willard so throw that talk out immediately.

Liston KO4. Jack down multiple times but keeps getting up.

 

Yeah Kearns would have a plan already. First he'd claim that there's no one putting down money for the fight (despite public polls having him as most interesting fight by 300% compared to the 2nd), then take a photograph of him signing a fake contract. Next, promise a title shot if he gets by an other opponent. After he does so, have Dempsey fight the loser of that title eliminator. Continue by searching a washed up light heavy. Then pick a terminally ill opponent to make even more money. After that, claim Dempsey needs a tune-up. Continue until Liston dies from an OD and then claim you made all the effort to make the fight. Complete the worst ducking job in the history of boxing (any weight class), yet still convince people to forget.:thumbsup