Has wlad done enough such that he's began a new universally accepted lineage?

If I smoke crack will I be able to see the yahoo divisional rankings you hallucinated?

 

The fact that he named light heavyweights as possible adversaries should negotiations hold up isn't enough? He's maintained since before the move up that he views Hopkins as a personal goal.

As did Erdei. He was quick enough to point out that he was not in fact retired.

The Ring is irrelevant.

You were asked to provide a link or even a quote where Erdei renounced his lineal claim not the WBO title.

 

Bowe is a wildly different can of worms. The point of debate is Hatton and Erdei. How is Erdei to retain the Ring belt if he was never afforded the privilege of ever holding it? You do acknowledge that he was once lineal champion, at least?

Erdei vacated the WBO version of a light heavyweight championship to claim a rival organization's cruiserweight belt. That alone does not warrant disqualification as a lineal titlist. I've given you one other fighter (Hatton) that made the same choice yet was given the benefit of the doubt. So what if he held the Ring and the IBO versions too, when the WBO has more in common with the IBF anyway?

 

No, you misunderstand. I was asking a rhetorical question. If Erdei held the lineal title without recognition from the Ring, then the Ring cannot be considered reliable. It is merely a good starting point as it resembles the mandates of the lineal title most of all, but it is not accurate 100% of the time. Unfortunately for Erdei, he did not have the privilege of holding their belt. In this case, we should go by his words and the fights as they happened. I don't think the Ring would have so readily awarded the winner of Pascal-Dawson had Erdei been their champion. But even if they did, it would not mean much as far as the lineage goes because Erdei would retain the right to be called the true champion of the world. It's happened before, so there's really no sense in using a different standard for Zsolt. I say again, no belt serves to bolster one's standing as a lineal claimant not even the Ring belt.

As for Jofre, he made no more defenses after Saldivar. It is questionable to say he should remain featherweight champion when he had no more fights at that limit. You do raise a good point about him though.

 

Yes, a very salient point indeed about the specific flaws inherent in the lineal title picture- one I do not dispute.

But Eder Jofre did not compete at the limit again for 2 years. Surely, Erdei has more in common with Hatton than Jofre. His short-lived foray into cruiserweight mirrors Hatton's attempts at the welterweight limit almost perfectly.

 

Jofre's inactivity cannot be compared to Dempsey's. Eder never competed in a featherweight contest again after Saldivar. It was clear in his time that Dempsey was the one and only champion. Eder is different; different from Dempsey, and also different from Erdei.

I think I touched upon Marquez earlier in the thread. To me, even if the next two lightweights meet in the ring, Marquez is still the man to beat.

Today, the odd fight above the weight requires abandonment of one's title. I'm only interested in keeping the playing ground level for all. It may not be perfect, but the lineal title is a link to the past for those who follow the sport.

 

A featherweight champion who doesn't fight as a featherweight? I mean not the odd fight here or there, but consistently up until his retirement?

See, the lineal title at least tries to be consistent about it. For every Marquez you submit, I can counter with a Hatton or Mayweather.

 

Dig a little deeper. Dempsey was a heavyweight. Jofre had his remaining fights at higher weights. Furthermore, not all fights while champion can be considered a title defense. Jofre fought no one of consequence after Sal.

You're implying that the alphabet soup organizations are somehow infallible and impervious to bias. They are a fickle bunch known to flip-flop on their own sanctioned rules. Stripping titlist has become very common and almost expected in some respect, so I see no big difference in being stripped and relinquishing the title if it is done to pre-empt the exact same thing happening. I see your Marquez, and raise you Hatton and Mayweather. That leaves us 2-1.