Why are Ali and Leanard underrated in a ATG ranking sense?

Now i'm not saying this is the case with everyone but i've seen a lot of top 25 ATG lists where Ali doesn't even crack the top 10 and Leanard fails to get into the top 20 these lists all seem to have guys like Langford, Tunney and Walker up near the top and i'm wondering just why do so many people not rate these two (Ali and Leanard) as high as the aforementioned?

 

I think in a way they were too mainstream and so there's no mystery involved. Pretty much everyone knows these two men. There's something more satisfying about discovering langford etc and the more you read the more impressed you get.

Ali is in my top ten. Ray leonard in my top 20. Both behind langford as neither achieved as much or beat better people imo.

Altho leonard's schedule of benitez, duran, duran, hearns and kalule within a short period is exceptional. It's a shame we missed 5 of his best years :-(

 

Suger Rea Leanard is a widely hated cherry picker, that might have something to do with it

Dont know about Ali though

 

I have Ali top 10 and SRL 10-15.

 

In my opinion:

Ali - too mainstream, very divisive personality.

Leonard - somewhat controversial selection of opponents, in his prime beaten by lightweight, public image is not manly enough.

 

Controversial selection of opponents? In what way?

 

Usual cherry picking accusations.

Fight Hagler when Hagler was in his prime and not in a fooball size ring.

Rematch with Hagler.

Fight Pryor.

Fight prime middleweight instead Lalonde's double title.

Probably immediate rematch with Hearns.

Not immediate rematch with Duran


That's a tall order but that's what usually some fans have against Leonard in terms of his opposition.

 

Don't think they are, mate.

 

Leonard just had the **** stacked against him. He fought some of the greatest fighters of all time, but he still gets grief for cherrypicking. Sure, he was a 'careful' matchmaker later in his career, but the dude came back after three years off and beat - or at least drew with, not just the MW champ, but one of the greatest MWs ever. Leonard's career was so full of HoF names that people tend to lose perspective and undervalue his achievements.

 

I see your one who loves Leonard

First hes gets accused of not giving immediate rematch, then hes accused when he does. Guy cant win.

The ring was too big v Hagler, in the name of christ it wasnt the ring doing the fighting. Whether 1 agrees with the decision or not i think its fair to say it was close enough and SRL held his own.

Waiting til hagler faded? I can see arguments for this but he had 1 meaningless fight in 5yrs and then it was staight in to MMM, so he gets some kudos in my book for that. None of the ranking curremt middleweights were giving Hagler much argument

Did not avoid Pryor regardless what some would say'

Dont think LaLonde held both titles either.

I understand these may not necessarily be your own point of view and your merely pointing out reasons why some MAY underate SRL but for me he has enough good fighters on his resume to warrant a high position, certainly top 20 (i dont do lists but if i did im sure id squeeze him in somewhere:good)

 

Yes, you're correct.

 

The criticism's don't really make sense though providing you accept his prime ended with an injury.

As a prime ww the only improvement would have been fighting cuevas instead of duran.

Coming back from a 5 year layoff to face the mw champ is easily one of the greatest comebacks in history. Everything after that is just a faded legend cashing in but there's nothing to criticise really.

 

Too mainstream for "experts" to rate

 

This is the reason. When compiling my list I originally had Ali #1 and Leonard #2, but then I had to stop....and weep....realising that I'd betrayed my hipster Classic brethren. Therefore, Ali now sits at #11 and Leonard at #21.