Why are Ali and Leanard underrated in a ATG ranking sense?

The ****?

 

And even then, in hindsight of course, Duran gave him more than Cuevas ever could've.

It's all hogwash that's become a source of amusement.

Leonard fought people either too soon or too late. Frankly, I think taking down 3 HOFers and a fourth lineal title holder within 22 months and having a combined record of 178-1-1 at the time he beat them is pretty damn good timing. In between that, he also beat rated Dave Green and Bruce Finch in defenses.

For all of Leonard's "gift decisions", there wasn't one fighter he met in the ring from June '79 to November '88 that he didn't stop, with the exception of Hagler.

 

can you blame him? First he takes 5 yrs to get in the ring with Marvin then refuses to give a rematch but then faces Lalonde. What do you mean he can't win? the guy's right!

And wasnt that Ray Leonard we saw in 1984? what do you mean he had the best years taken from him? He couldve come out any time he wanted!

Fact is, he brought Hagler to Baltimore C Center and chickened out in front of everyone. he let Pryor man him down in front of everyone

Ali would never do this. Nor Jones nor Robinson nor the other true greats

Leonard an atg, how absurd

Ali 15-29

Leonard 45-50

 

he didnt stop Benitez either. Outpointed him yes, stopped him no way

 

and what was HIS record, 36-3-1?

 

The Ring Leader :good

 

Your that deluded your quoting me on things i didnt even say ha ha ha!!

 

I think that some people work on a basis that p4p rankings are weighted towards smaller fighters.

This likley hurts Ali in some cases.

 

Ali is not a lock for top 10 (Although he'd probably be in mine). Leonard is not a lock for top 20 either. Leonard gets more mistreated in H2H threads than anything else. I actually think he may be overrated as a fighter if anything.

 

My idea of P4P was always how good you are for your own weight, compared to how good the other candidates are for their own weight.

Marciano being a perfect example.

ie. There maybe 200lb+ guys who might beat him(a very limited selecetion at that), and there are plenty other 200lb+ guys who might beat them. But its very unlikely another 180lb guy is gunna beat Marciano

so Marciano = a top p4p fighter

 

What would say to those who believe certain divisions are historically more weak in comparison to divisions with immense depth & talent?

 

I don't mean weight as in divisions of weight.

Its hard to put into words what i mean.

Closest i can come up with is - If everyone was the same size as Marciano, Marciano would beat them. Or this, for whoever i consider the P4P best. Of couse if the rest of them were Marciano's size, they wouldnt be their actual selves. Im confused now. Whatever

 

Both are probably still a tad overrated, even by the hardcore fan.

 

They r both overrated , especially Ali who is extremely overrated by almost every1 , even including a few who usually do know their stuff .

 

Well, in term of pure boxing skills I don't see how he is overrated. As for his resumé it is arguable.