Foreman vs Chuvalo question

I'll rewatch this..but I don't remember getting that impression.

Now Chuvalo/Frazier was a great stoppgae.

This one didn't give me that impression. Chuvalo didn't look hurt here and probably deserved the benefit of the doubt. There had been far worse corner poundings that were allowed to continue. Was it "booed?" or am I mixing it up wth the first Peralate fight?

 

Chuvalo's hands were up and he was still throwing back when the ref waved it off. Yes, he was taking some tremendous shots from Foreman, but it's not as if he was out of it. Watch GC's right hand near the end and the body shots he threw the entire fight at Foreman.

A good stoppage? I think a little premature.

 

After watching the film, a couple of things hit me.

One, the commentator seems to give Foreman too much credit for dominating the fight. The first 2 rounds were won by George F. but they were competitive as George C. was landing some body shots. Hardly a case of Foreman dominating.

Two, the commentator states that Chuvalo's trainer was climbing into the ring and thus, the ref stopped the fight but this was never apparent on the clip. AFTER the fight is ended, then you see Chuvalo's handlers entering the ring. They don't seem to be anywhere near the ropes while the fight was still in progress.

My overall impression was that the stoppage was a bit premature. Of course, maybe Mercante saw something in Chuvalo's eyes that could not be detected by the camera or the crowd.

 

Bull**** stoppage. Punches didnt have any effect on Chuvalo. Forman would have punched himself out for sure. Chuvalo was actually boxing well for most of the fight.

 

if foreman's punches had no effect then y did chuvalo turn boxer all d sudden ? y did he retreat instead of attacking ?

 

Foremans shots did have affect on Chuvalo. GC told me it was the force of his punches and the weight behind them that hurt, but only when he landed them properly and clearly. It's not as if he was hurt for most of the fight because some of Foreman's punches didn't land cleanly.

If you look at the replays, George was keeping his right hand up almost as if to parry but he's not known for that. He was trying to protect himself going backwards as Foreman was attacking him. Foreman landed a good right and left on the jaw at the time of the stoppage but Chuvalo was still throwing back, trying mainly to the body because that's where his early success was. George's breathing was getting heavy. The other shots he threw did some damage but he was hurt and they didn't land cleanly in the danger area.

Ali landed alot of clean shots to the top of Chuvalo's head which he's known for taking. That's where the reputation of his toughness comes from. Chuvalo wasn't that hard to hit, but it's not as if he'd leave himself there to be hit. A fighter moving his head or fighting out of a crouch is likely to have more glancing blows from the opponent that do less damage. The bad thing is for fighters like Patterson and Frazier who come forward against sluggers like Liston and Foreman, is because in a crouch, whether peak-aboo, or bob and weave pressure, they have the immediate danger of leading their face into a danger shot off a counter or power shot. Even worse if a fighter's hands are down at chest level or mid-riff in the crouch.

Young Mike Tyson was different and almost always kept his hands up to protect his face in the peak-aboo style. He would double dip with his shoulders on either side to set up body shots off the jab, mainly hooks. This is what made him deadly and some say set him apart from Frazier. Joe was a pressure fighter first and foremost. He would try to always get inside bobbing and using the angles. What makes Frazier deadly is the repetitive nature of his style and his conditioning. He has more stamina than Tyson and can keep moving his head with a large volume of punches in his prime years. If he needed to box with his right hand, he could, but it really wasn't his style. He was quick enough prior to FOTC to change styles slighty and use both hands. If helped him against Bonavena and Quarry in the rematches.

Chuvalo tried to stand up and box a little more coventional when Foreman hurt him in the end. He was still getting caught with right hands that knocked him backwards. Credit young George Foreman too. Look at the shape of him here moving with those long strides. Covers a whole lot of ring territory despite being a bit sloppy and a tad awkward on his feet. He was a monster with long arms that could hurt you with a heavy thudding jab and a sledgehammer right. This is the power he never lost into his 40s.

Frazier once said, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe on Howard Stern that Foreman was the greatest, probably because of his pure punching power. Combine the brute Foreman of the 70's with the discipline of the 90's Foreman and that's a champion that's nearly unbeatable. The only fighter that beats him has to be quicker landing first and not getting caught in the power zone when he cuts off the ring.

 

He was boxing from the get go.
Using his jab, and slipping underneath Formans.
Hands held high and digging brutal body shots to Formans midsection.
The guy has never been down.
Forman lands a few shots and they stop the fight.

 

Seeing how Foreman ran out of gas against Ali, it's legitimate to think that he would have run out of gas against Chuvalo. Foreman was throwing lots of punches, and was used to winning fights in the first 3 rounds. Chuvalo would have weathered the storm and taken Foreman into the trenches in the later rounds.

Bad stoppage, I agree.

 

This was not the Ali fight.

1. Foreman had fought three rounds in comfortable surroundings, versus eight rounds in sweltering heat.

2. Ali was making Foreman miss much of the time. And Foreman's punches weren't near as damaging there as they were to Chuvalo.


Chuvalo was rocked at 8:11 of the posted Youtube. over the next 45 seconds, it was target practice. Foreman tagged him at least 30 times, the majority of which were bombs that landed to both head and body. in that same timeframe, Chuvalo threw 3, one of which landed very ineffectually.

No serious case there to let it continue.

 

Not a big deal for Chuvalo.
Chuvalo was letting Forman throw his punches, waiting for the right time for a big counter hook.

 

Definitely stopped too early. Foreman landed that one good punch that drove Chuvalo into the ropes. However, after that, hardly any of Foreman's punches were even landing. Most (if not all) were being blocked. Foreman admitted many times that he was well gassed out after that. I think it would have been interesting to see what happens. Later fighters that fought Foreman (e.g. Ali) had the benefit of watching Foreman's early fights and they were able to devise a fight plan that anticipated Foreman's lack of stamina.

 

Bad stoppage? Joking right?

First Chuvalos corner was telling the ref to stop the fight. There would be no reason for the commentator to say that the corner was telling the ref to stop the fight unless they were. When a corner stops the fight it's generally a legit manner for a bout to be stopped.

Secondly Chuvalo was taking a huge beating. That hook hurt Chuvalo more than I've ever seen him hurt. He was on the retreat taking punch after punch when the fight was stopped...by Chuvalos own corner.

Third Chuvalo was already getting busted up and his mouth more than likely from that hook was pouring blood.

When a fighter gets seriously staggered, cowers in retreat, takes punch after solid punch and his own corner tells the ref to stop the fight....that's no BS stoppage!

 

I've always loved Chuvalo, but come on, are certain folks saying here if they had let this bomb-bast continue, Chuvalo would have had George gassed and ready for a KO! Get real folks, Chuvalo was literally getting his ASS KICKED. As Houdini said, George was 'cowering'. I don't even remember now, 2nd or 3rd round, Foreman nailed Chuvalo with a left (or right) did it matter, and Chuvalo turned the other way, lifting his shoulder to shield his jaw for pete's sake! Has anyone who followed Chuvalo's career EVER seen that? Quite simply he was a beaten man, ready to go, if not then, then in the next round. End of non-issue.

 

Foremans jab was working overtime...what a hard punch. Chuvalo is known to take punishment but his own corner wanted it stopped...that says plenty.

 

Premature stoppage ? Chuvalo's corner was asking the ref to stop the fight as the ref did on his own at same time , both to save Chuvalo's life .. he was staggered, pummeled, his eye was closed, he was spitting up blood and getting the **** beat out of him by a prime Foreman. The announcer was screaming about the horrible beating Chuvalo was receiving ... get real man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naUC9jQLytw