Battle of the green greats: Charles vs Robinson; December 1942

Bivins was better than Lesnevich.
But i dont think Lesnevich was "a complete paper champion". He was actually a good choice for champion when Billy Conn moved up. He has some good wins.

 

Charles would struggle down to 160 for this fight, and perhaps be a few pounds more when he steps in the ring. Conservatively lets say he's an actual 163.
Robinson was 145 pounds at this time.
This might be a mismatch

 

Ezzard takes a ud

 

Exactly how I see it.

 

a good big'un beats a good lil'un. but this is good bg'un vs great lil'un. cant decide

 

Ships passing in the night.

 

Aside from size, I think styles favour Charles. Both were very fast and had ATGs chins, but Ezzard's defence was much better than Robinson's. An aggressive boxer-puncher like Robinson didn't have the work rate to take a lot many rounds from Charles. I think Charles would fight defensively and let Robinson come in range for Ezz to push up against him and flurry inside, I think Robinson takes 5/6 rounds due to him being Sugar Ray Robinson, but ultimately lose to Ezz fighting smart on the inside with timed flurries, smooth moves and blocking SRR's biggest shots. I also think that it's fair to assume Ezzard had better feet at this point, he outboxed Burley, Robinson was still developing.
Ezz would basically fight like a better, bigger Gavalin but for most of the round, not just the end.

This is one of technically the best match ups ever. Charles UD15.

 

Are you taking the ****?

Ezzard Charles = Sugar Ray Robinson pfp. Possibly less, possibly more. Both are top 10 pfp LOCKS.
To call Ezzard Charles 'good' and blatantly implying he's not great is underrating him so much, it's disgusting.

 

December 1, 1942 Charles weighed 166. On the same card Robinson fought and weighed 145. Thats a 21 pound weight difference. Thats how great Robinson was. Only two months later Charles was weighing in the mid 170s consistently. Robinson stayed right around 144/145 for a couple more years at least. We are asking who would win between him and guy who was 21 pounds heavier. Willie Pep, one of the greatest boxing masters of all time weighed 129.5 in December 1942. You NEVER see anyone asking who would win between Pep and Robinson and yet Pep was only 15.5 pounds lighter than Robinson. Again, thats how great Robinson was. Now, if Robinson made Charles make 160, having to drain down that low, that could be huge. Charles, despite his relatively recent elevated reputation, was not unbeatable as a middleweight and Robinson was better at 145 than anyone Charles had lost to at this time, so for me taking the intangibles into account its a pick em.

 

Robinson was fighting to make a living. Your perspective is off. That fight wouldn't have made anywhere near the $ LaMotta drew. Burley was respected but the general public would not have come out for this.

 

Charles would have a natural size advantage. Height is marginal. Robinson is gonna be the quicker man of hand and foot. Looking at the films of Sugar Ray in 1939 Golden Gloves I would guess that he would be hard for Ezzard to catch. He has enough power to hurt bigger boxers. Charles may be drained making 160.
It could go either way. Just the fact that were raising the question proves Robinson was the GOAT

 

Surely the Greb vs Holyfield thread gives a better case for the goat to Greb

 

Now, that's an avatar I can get behind!

My pick is Charles. I just think even then the size is an important differential considering the class of both men.