does joe louis power realistically compare to other

joe walcott said Marciano hit harder than Louis, but Louis had better combos.

 

Shavers was 220lbs. Joe louis rarely scaled above 195lbs. Thats a very big size and weight difference. and they, as im sure you'll agree, where 2 very different types of power punchers. Shavers would be a lil short for THIS day and age, but would certainly have the weight.

 

Can anyone picture Don Cockell lasting 9 rounds against Joe Louis ?
Not a chance...Well Marciano who I saw and loved hit Cockell with every
punch in his arsenal before the ref stopped the bout in the 9th round...It is not who hit "harder" that pays off at the end, it is who is the more effective puncher....No HW in history combined such speed, leverage and punching power as Joe Louis did...And pinpoint accuracy, I might add...

 

Rocky must have hated Cockell, because I can seldom remember a more mean spirited effort from him, Cockell was belted, thumbed, elbowed, low blowed and generally fouled throughoutthe fight, maybe he kept him up to punish him Burt?

 

Earnie Shavers was a very constant 203-209 at his peak. He wasn't even 220 when he was FIFTY YEARS OLD. The only times he sniffed 220 was when he was over 30, irrelevant and out of shape.

Joe Louis was 200-205 at his absolute peak, 210+ a little beyond it. "Rarely weighed above 195?" The last time he was near 195, he was 20 years old. And he had at least two inches of height on Shavers.

Do at least the most basic research before attempting to contribute.

 

You're tilting it a little your way, tho the general premise is well received. Louis was 197 1/2 when he won the title. The heaviest he weighed in his next 19 fights was 203 1/2. He was under 200 in a few. I'd say his absolute peak would be more akin to 197 - 203. After the Nova fight he started coming in heavier. Against Schmeling, a fight much revered and turned into legend he weighed 198 3/4.

I'd say peak Louis would come in very very close to 200. That's fine, his power at that weight was sensational of course.

Shavers came in at 210 and 211 for Holmes, 211 for Ali and 211 for Norton. Obviously he was just over 30 and your argument is his peak was earlier via age. I myself would put him at 210. He staggered ali at this weight and near decapitated Holmes. He could have been hitting just as hard in the low 200's.

Not many would guess they are so close, Shavers looks so much bigger than Louis, and indeed so much heavier than he actually was.

Anyway per the thread title. I'm not 100% convinced Louis absolute one punch power QUITE matches a Foreman, Shavers, Lewis or certain others, but he has the best combination of speed, power, precision, variation and timing of any boxer ever, not just the heavyweights. This is why he was rated the number one puncher ever by The Ring.

I wouldn't debate he hasn't got as much power as any of them, it's just a feeling and personal view he is a bee's dick below. Legitimate one punch KO power whatever way one looks at it. No doubt whatsoever there. This is particulary proven by the fact he could still take out stubborn foes late in a fight. Carried his power well into the late rounds.

 

Beautifully analysed, spot on!

 

perhaps the best phrase for this is effective power, rather than how hard you can throw a telegraphed punch that will probably miss.

 

interestingly, Buddy Baer remarked that he could tell the difference between the punching power of the 201 1/2 pound Louis he fought first time around and the 206 3/4 Louis of the rematch.
Joe's managers expressed the same sentiment. most people who saw the fights could only agree.
at 207 1/2 in the Abe simon rematch he seemd to be just as powerful, and explosive as ever
i think Louis in one of his autobiographies described himself as coming in underweight for most of his fights.
its a shame his career was interrupted when it was, we might have seen a Louis in his late 20s at a consistent 206 - 209 pounds hitting harder than ever.
when he came back he was again heavy but up and down in weight trying to get it right, but the layoff and loafing around doing exhibitions at 230+ pounds for 4 years made it impossible for him to get back what he once had.

really ? I never thought Shavers looked particularly big in there for a heavyweight. menacing, but not big. and a bit shorter than most heavyweights
(fighters of Louis's eras of all weights are filmed from a bit of a distance so they appear smaller ! )

both shavers and louis always strike me as looking very strong and powerfully built but not massive in heavyweight terms. both have a lot of size in their legs, something a lot of boxers, even heavyweights, dont possess ... and they used their powerful legs to punch like they did ...

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

 

its George Foreman's one-punch power i have the most doubts about.

yes obviously he was big and strong and powerful and heavy-handed enough to KO an elephant but how often did he really demonstrate it ?
i have no doubt if fighters were to stand still for him and not throw punches back he could get them out with one punch.

but mostly we often had Foreman bludgeoning guys around the ring with a mixture of haymaker swings and push-punches long and short. the michael moorer KO is his most famous one-punch KO or KD.
i saw him land dozens, if not hundreds, or his blows on Ron Lyle - a man who was put on ***** street by one good right hand against Ali.
Frazier walked straight on to Foreman's blows, and somehow it still descended into a festival of blunt bludgeoning blows.
those blows were obviously hurtful and overwhelming if a fighter couldnt avoid tcontain him, but that's not classic one-punch KO power.
i'm not saying he didnt possess it, but it wasn't his style.
he had sickening clubbing blows rather than the lights-out or short-circuiting type power that a Louis, Marciano or Tyson showed more often.

 

Shavers looks big in pictures. He has the bald head, the challenging postures, looking like one bad mutha. Well, I had the pleasure of meeting him a couple times in Vegas. He would not strike you as being that big. Actually appeared to be a shade under 6 feet. Seriously, I wouldn't want to get punched by the guy, not in a hundred years, but he is hardly scary big, actually smaller than myself.

Shavers was 33 years old for Holmes when he weighed 211. At the same age, Louis fought Walcott and weighed, you guessed it, 211. Louis last weighed under 200 for heavyweight opponent against Godoy, at the age of 26, right at 199. At the same age, Shavers weight\ed in at 204. And let's admit, Shavers never appeared in the fine-tuned shape that Louis trained to. Louis was ripped to the bone. Earnie seemed to carry an extra few lb.'s, not a lot, but some. And let's not forget, Louis was a legit 6 foot 2 to Shavers alleged 6 foot.

So, are we done splitting count hairs? They were essentially the same size. One just posed better in pictures.

 

I am not maintaining that the guy couldn't hit.. But if " all time one punch knockout power" is being compared to Foreman, Shavers, Tyson, Lewis or Marciano as the golden standard, then no... Louis does not make this cut... He utilized a strategy of hitting his opponents with slashing combinations that came in bunches with shear speed and accuracy..

Case being.. Those other guys I mentioned, or at least most of them hit hard well into old age, whereas when Louis's speed and accuracy went away, so did the knockouts. He stopped 48 of his first 56 opponents up until 1947 when he was 34 years old.. From this point forth, he stopped only 4 of his last 10.. Power is usually the last thing to go and men like Foreman and Lewis maintained their power beyond age 34, whereas Louis was dependent upon, speed, accuracy and volume to finish an opponent, so once those things were gone, he couldn't..

 

relying on speed and accuracy doesnt exclude him from having the highest degree of power.
One punch power is measured by what effect a punch can have on an opponent. Louis's punches were as devastating, as powerful, as just as anyone's.

real life results are what counts.
if someone can explain why they'd give Foreman a higher score for punching power than Louis, i'd like to know

 

Power vs volume and accuracy of punches are two different things..

Absolutely, as long as we're talking about a single punch and not flurries of them.

I would say that his ABILITY to hurt and FINISH an opponent was as effective as anyone's.. Didn't mean he packed the same amount of POWER in a SINGLE shot.

Exactly, which is why I illustrated in my last post, how his ability to FINISH an opponent diminished with age, whereas some of his peers in the punching category maintained that ability into older age.

- Highest win/ko percentage of all time

- Continued to knock men out well into his 40's while Louis lost most of his punching ability around age 34.

- Threw shots that lifted a 209 pound man off the canvas

- On the average, fought and KO'd men who in many cases were bigger than the average opponent that Louis fought.

 

well, i agree that volume should be excluded.
But accuracy and speed are ingredients of power.

Ok. but please note that George Foreman threw a zillion punches at most of his opponents, drowned them in heavy blows.
Marciano often did the same thing too

well, to me it looks like he is ABLE to hurt and FINISH an opponent in as few shots as just about anyone else.
how many times did Foreman finish an unhurt opponent with a single shot ?

it's irrelevant. if he lost his power with age it shouldn't have any bearing of how we rate his power when he had all his power !
that's like saying a woman was less beautiful than she was at 20 because she aged quick and looked like absolute **** when she was 40 !

irrelevant.
not only do such statistics always require investigation into quality of opposition, but since we are talking about SINGLE SHOT power those stoppages didn't necessarily occur from such power. in fact, how many did ?

irrelevant.
and besides, Foreman was only really KOing the 3rd- and 4th-raters in his 40s (Moorer being an exception).

Louis lifted 207 pound Paolino Uzcudun through the air, and 198 pound Tami Mauriello and others too probably. He spun 237 pound Buddy Baer around with a shot to the jaw

but how many were known for durability ?


None of this is actual evidence of Foreman having better one punch power.
the best thing to do would be to look at the fights. I think foreman relied on volume far more and more often than did Louis.