Joe Calzaghe the greatest super middleweight ever...

even Calzaghe thought RJJ was shot. it's written right there in his book. it's a direct quote. you saying your hero is a liar?

 

Good show :rofl


Ultimately you have to look beyond the numbers. About half a dozen of Calzaghe's defences shouldn't even have been sanctioned as "World" title fights.

In terms of historical significance, Jones' domination of Toney in what had been billed a p4p shootout shits all over the win over Kessler. The likes of Lucas and Malinga were on the same level as Calzaghe's other signature wins at 168. Throw in the robbery against Reid and the near certainty that (prime) Jones would destroy (prime) Calzaghe h2h, and it really shouldn't be a debate who the greatest super-middleweight is.

 

If Roy Jones was so shot then how did he dominate a prime Felix Trinidad in his previous fight?

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qLPdI7bZnI[/ame]

 

What are you talking about? Toney was a bum, nowhere near Calzaghe's level, and Calzaghe robbed Reid? Only Calzaghe haters would ever think that.

 

If he was American he would be laughed at on both sides of the pond.

 

Will you also stake your credibility on the notion that Jones was in his prime vs Calzaghe?

I'll ask you.... Are you saying that Roy Jones Jr was in his prime when he fought Calzaghe in 2008?

 

The average women makes a whole more sense than an average ESB-posters.

 

Governing bodies and Boxing mags



After Eubanks fight with Calzaghe

1. Frankie Liles*, 31-1, WBA champ
2. Joe Calzaghe* (Britain), 23-0, WBO champ
3. Robin Reid (Britain), 25-0-1, WBC champ
4. Joseph Kiwanuka (Uganda), 25-1-2
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   (Britain), 45-3-2

After Reid came back with a win and Malinga lost Reid was rated higher than you note when Calzaghe beat him
1: Joe Calzaghe* (Britain), 26-0, WBO champ
2: Frankie Liles*, 32-1, WBA champ
3: Richie Woodhall (Britain), 25-1, WBC champ
4:

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(Britain), 27-1-1
Starie became
1: Joe Calzaghe* (GB), 34-0, WBO
2: Sven Ottke (Germany), 27-0, IBF
3: Eric Lucas (Canada), 35-4-3, WBC
4: Antwun Echols, 29-4-1
5: Robin Reid (GB), 32-3-1
6: Byron Mitchell, 25-1-1, WBA
7:

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(GB), 30-2
Sheika who you didnt note when Calzaghe beat him
1: Joe Calzaghe* (Britain), 28-0, WBO
2: Sven Ottke (Germany), 19-0, IBF
3: Glenn Catley (Britain), 26-3, WBC
4: Bruno Girard (France), 37-2-1, WBA
5: Byron Mitchell, 20-1-1
6: Markus Beyer (Germany), 18-1
7: Richie Woodhall (Britain), 26-2
8: James Butler, 16-1
9: Charles Brewer, 35-6
10:

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20-1
Woodhall - Beyer who beat Woodhall was KOd by Woodhall victim Catley
1: Joe Calzaghe* (Britain), 29-0, WBO
2: Sven Ottke (Germany), 20-0, IBF
3: Bruno Girard (France), 38-2-1, WBA
4: Byron Mitchell, 21-1-1
5:

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(Britain), 26-2
6: Dingaan Thobela (South Africa), 40-7-2, WBC
7: Glenn Catley (Britain), 26-4
8: Markus Beyer (Germany), 18-1
Veit when Calzaghe fought him a 2nd time
1: Joe Calzaghe* (GB), 38-0, WBO
2: Jeff Lacy, 19-0-0-1, IBF
3: Mikkel Kessler (Denmark), 35-0, WBA
4: Markus Beyer* (Germany), 32-2, WBC
5: Danny Green (Australia), 19-2
6: Mads Larsen* (Denmark), 45-2
7: Robin Reid (GB), 38-4-1, IBO
8: Anthony Mundine (Australia), 23-2
9:

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(Germany), 45-1

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you note who also wasnt coming off a loss

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you note, but you dont note how Mitchell was coming off a SD loss to Ottke which was very debateable.

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did enter into the ratings after his KO win of the undefeated European SMW champ 26-0 J Chanet
Ashira was rated at MW

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   you note

Bika before he fought Calzaghe
1: Joe Calzaghe* (GB), 41-0, WBO/IBF
2: Mikkel Kessler (Denmark), 37-0, WBA
3: Markus Beyer* (Germany), 34-2-1, WBC
4: Jeff Lacy, 21-1-0-1
5: Anthony Mundine (Australia), 26-3
6: Librado Andrade, 24-0
7: Danny Green (Australia), 21-3
8: Allan Green, 22-0
9: Rudi Markussen (Denmark), 33-1
10:

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(Australia), 20-1-2
Manfredo wasnt coming off a loss and was world rated

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you note

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All top 10s

 

Exactly !!

 

my personal opinion yes he is the most sucsessful in his division. I wouldnt consider him a great champion though, he wasted his prime in the uk. Fought lacy, kessler and Bika? come on seriously, then manfredo jr? haha. Im I the only one who thought b-hop schooled him? Then fought jones jr and got a descision. Jones was way past it by then. Im brittish too. I think hes a great boxer and did a lot for Brittish boxing. But IMO he isnt and will never be reguarded as one of the best of all time.

 

Bailey:

I admire the effort you put into your post and have an honest question for you:

Manny Quezada was ranked #10 by the WBO in 2010. Had Wlad fought him would you have considered it a legitimate defense?

 

Why are you asking me a question about something totally irrelevant?
We are talking about SMWs not HWs and I have given you a run down of the divisions titles below

The SMW divisions first world champs were WBC 1988, WBA 1987, IBF 1984 & WBO 1988.
Now for a start it is a new division so no belt has any more prestige than the other as they were all started at a similar time. So the WBO SMW title has no less prestige than the others.
Consider also that the WBO at SMW has been involved in 4 unification bouts.
The IBF has been involved in 2
The WBA in 3
WBC in 4 also
This shows that the WBO has been as willing to make top fights at SMW as much as any other governing body.

Now look at the list of champs in each and who they defended against and you can see that the WBO SMW title has produced the best defences overall better than all of the other govening bodies in this particular weight division so far.
Consider how much critism Bute gets now for his IBF defences.
Consider M Beyer defending his WBC title against 26-14-5 fighter who was coming off of a win against a 0-2-0 fighter
Or that Mundine when defending the WBA title against a 24-13-5 fighter who was the same fighter that WBC champ Beyer was defending against above.

People bring up Eubank who helped mould the belt that was good enough to give T Hearns a slice of history making. Out of Eubanks 18 WBO SMW title fights 14 of those fights were against fighters who were, had been or became top 10 SMWs. One was a unification and another was against the undefeated former IBF SMW champ (relinquished his title). In fact 6 of the fighters he faced had been or became world champs

As noted an old post where details have altered slightly

 

Mind being a little more specific Bails? Maybe put where the ranking came from with each example?

In the above, are you referring to me or someone else ?

But from where?

 

Your post indicates that as long as the challenger was rated in the top 10 at the time of the bout or subsequent to it, the title defense is legitimate.

I want to see how far that logic extends. In other words, does that same logic hold up for fighters other than your favorite.

Based on your post, Omar Sheika was rated #10 by the WBO when Joe fought him, therefore the defense was legitimate. So, had Wlad fought the #10 rated Quezada, would you extend him the same consideration?