Did mike ever fight someone who could jab or move as good as douglas?

These are my thoughts too I think a prime Holmes does well as does Ali don't like Bowe's chances because he would like to brawl rather than use his jab.

 

james smith and tony tubbs would have failed as miserably as they actualy did to the very same Tyson that Douglas fought.

bonecrusher, though dangerous was a big slower guy who fought in spurts, he knew he was in danger of being beaten to the punch so he looked to walk tyson down, tie him up and frustrate him. That is the only game plan a guy like smith could hope to use on any version of Tyson. Tokyo Tyson would have landed enough punches between clenches to outscore bonecrusher as he did earlier when they did fight.

Tubbs? he could box and neutralise a foe but Tysons hand speed would always have been a match for tubbs - mike would always have found Tubbs's chin (just as he did with douglas). To say Tubbs could ever beat Tyson is like saying Tubbs could get through it without ever getting hit.

 

Douglas was initiating first because he made Tyson pause for thought. watch the footwork, Douglas made Tyson buy feints and made him pay. Mike became reluctant to lead. Rather than lead off and be countered Tyson hoped to beat Douglas to the draw (as he did with tubbs) but douglas was making it impossible for him to judge the distance correctly with the feints and double jabs. Douglas had him stuck at his mercy, forced into a no mans land where Tyson could not reach douglas.

Tubbs was always going to get hit at some point and that is why he would always lose to Tyson. what kind of world class prep was tubbs getting going into his fight with Tyson? Greg page was the last good fighter he beat before Tyson and that was a long time ago. Ditto pinklon thomas, it was a long time since mike weaver...
Tucker was a good technician. there is a chance he was capable of outscoring Tyson for spells but no evidence he could discourage and isolate Tyson in a no mans land in quite the way Douglas was able to. There is a big difference between winning a share of a round and keeping the other guy out of the fight. Douglas, with his use of range, feints and forcing Tyson to pause too much kept Tyson out of the fight.

 

WOAHHHHHHH Did you just put the Holyfield loss in the same bracket as Williams and McBride? Past prime at 29 and inactive against a past prime 34yo Holyfield, I hold it against him a little yes

 

Many people hold Holyfield losses against Tyson.

 

should the schmeling loss be held against joe louis then? Louis did get revenge but it was against an older schmeling 8 years past his peak - I rate Louis the highest of all champions regardless but the first fight with schmeling did hapen when he was already great in the same way as Tyson was already great when he was beaten by douglas. Both fights showed that the right desire and gameplan from a still capable world class fighter can over come a special fighter.

 

Of course.

These 2 fights many consider serious blows to his legacy.
Almost as serious as Douglas loss.

Usual arguments are:

Holyfield was older and on the decline himself;

Holyfield wasn't viewed as a big threat to Mike and that was the reason he was chosen as an opponent;

second fight is a total disgrace and a blatant quit job;

because of this two fights people question Tyson's heart, ability to deal with adversity, his whole skillset and a place in history basically.

prime Holyfield beats prime Tyson because they both were at the similar stages of their careers at the time of their actual fights.

That's just some points right off the top of my head.

 

Just to be clear: I'm not arguing about Tyson nor Jones just listed the arguments people usually mention in the debates.

Boxing fans use Jones' past prime losses almost in every debate as a proof of him not being a great fighter or to show his so called deficiencies.

And that's Jones who is universally recognized even by his detractors as being completely shot fighter since 2004.

Compare that to Tyson who still was a top heavyweight after jail.

That's just how most people think and operate.

That doesn't necessary make them right, of course.

 

Primo tyson Ko's every boxer in history