Controversial statements on boxing that you stand by...

I have Dempsey higher than Johnson.

Dempsey gets under-rated these days imo.

 

I no, I no. I seem to be very much in the minority here. Personal preference perhaps. Ali undoubtedly had a better resume, but I feel Louis was the better all round fighter. He had much better body work, more variety in his attack, and dominated just as much as Ali did.

After Rocky I have:

Dempsey
Frazier
Tyson (begrudgingly)
Evander
Liston
Jersey Joe
Ezzard Charles
Gene Tunney
Sam Langford
Wladdo
Jeffries
Sullivan
Wills

A bullish top 20. But the order changes all the time.

 

People make to big a deal about weight in classes under heavyweight, like about fighters moving up etc. Dunno if this is even Controversial.

 

Agree, like if some1 is bigger automatically it's a massive problem even if it's just a few pounds

 

It means little nowadays for certain, good shout.

 

I don't like come from behind stoppages and if Direll did indeed find the easy way out, I wasn't and am still not mad at him

 

1- If Roberto Duran would have retired after Leonard I, his legacy wouldn't have been as good as it is today.

2- If Sugar Ray Leonard had fought and beat 30 extra bums, he would be held in MUCH higher esteem today.

 

Agree with the 2nd but not the 1st. I have to admit that many people dont sem to give Leonard the benefit of the doubt just because he didnt get the volume of defences in there. Its not enough for him to beat. Benitez Duran Halger and Hearns. I think if he fought the level of opposition Calzaghe faced in most of his defences interspersed with the big names he got eventually I think he would be held in much higher esteem. In my eyes the lad has nothing to prove. He basically cherrypicked the best fighters in and around his weight during that era and beat them all.

Duran on the other hand I think established his lightweight legacy and cemented himself as a great but what really pushed him into legendary territory was the manner that this former super feather past his best destroyed Davey Moore, Cuevas is an underrated win and was competitive with Benitez and Hagler one of the top 2 middles of all time. The win over Barkley is impressive a stone and a half and nearly a decade past his prime wrecking lightweight days. Even his career into the 90's demonstrates to some effect how he was just the ultimate fighter. The guy was a little guy fighting 20 years past his best 20+ pounds heavier than he should be. He fought from the 60's-2000's and still and something to offer.

 

The 72-1 Duran secured himself as the greatest lightweight ever IMO, with his only lose avenged by 2 knockouts.

But it was outboxing Marvin Hagler over 12 rounds, brutalising Davey Moore in 8, becoming Middleweight Champion against Barkley, and stopping*Cuevas in 4 which added to his p4p legacy, and therefore legacy as a whole IMO

 

atsch just realised your statement about Duran "wouldnt have been as good" I thought you said "would have"

I completely agree with both points and neither are controversial to me

 

:good

 

Styles make fights, Foreman destrosy similar opponents but I think Larry would have UD Foreman.

George no matter what had a weakness for boxers who had good chins and could box on the outside....Foreman will land on a big one and thats a given so Wlad is ruled out.

From 60 onwards....Always think Ali would have him, Holmes, Lewis, C. Byrd (very much like J. Young)...Unsure what to make of how Tyson does it.

You know what I go back to the grouping fighters...Instead of ranking...1,2,3 we should group them and not have one literally above the other.

From 60 onwards

Group 1- M. Ali, L. Holmes, M. Tyson, L. Lewis, G. Foreman, E. Holyfield

Group 2 - R. Bowe, S. Liston, J. Frazier,

Group 3 - K. Norton, J. Quarry, T. Witherspoon, T. Tucker, P. Thomas, T. Morrison, R. Ruddock, C. Byrd, J. Young, Shavers, Lyle


I mean can we honestly say Shavers is better than Lyle? They are very close...mixed results.

 

Ray didnt have many fights true, but I think alot of people hold him top 10 of all time.

 

Rocky as the best ever? Head to head or resume just dont see it. The guy was on top for 3 years, and amongst the top condenders for 4/5 years....when you factor that L. Lewis was amongst the top for a decade or Ali for 16 years, or Holmes 20 years...just dont see it.

The best fighter of his time frame, but Liston was the best fighter of the 50s.

 

No no no, read up. I had Louis, Ali, Johnson, Holmes, Lewis, Foreman and then that list you quoted me on