Ali vs. Foreman.. BUT this time 10 out of 10...

Ali was a much better fighter.
Foreman was a bit of a novice.
The KOs of Norton and Frazier deceived people into thinking his sheer power would be too much for Ali, or anyone else.

before he faced Frazier everyone knew he was a bit of a novice, a one-dimensional slugger who lacked top-flight experience.
Frazier just charged into his punches.
Norton had the wrong style to cope with Foreman too.
They were probably the two world-ranked opponents best suited to make Foreman look invincible.
and since they were the ONLY two fighters to have ever beaten Ali, it had a massive impact on public perception.


I can't even imagine Ali and Foreman fighting 10 times. So i can't begin to answer that question.
All I can say is Ali was a much better fighter. Plus he had a style that would never be very favourable to Foreman, however much Foreman attempted to adjust.

 

As I'm always saying,Ali would have beaten George again,for sure,if they'd have had a rematch in 1975. No matter what tactics George or Muhammad used,and whether the fight took place in Zaire,Madison Square Garden or Antarctica.

After the 'Thrilla' it becomes a bit harder to forecast. In that scenario,I'd give it to Ali,but by a closer margin. Say around 60/40.

 

Good stamina training and restraining from often stupid engaging/chasing Ali alone should do it for Foreman, I think. He would be a ton wiser fighting him just the second time. Ali knew it, didn't give him a rematch even though Foreman constantly asked him for it and even though both Norton and Frazier got theirs. Styles clash favour Ali but I'm tempted to say that as powerful and young as in their first fight, but much more hungry, alert and wise George would easily take the majority of the 10 fights between them.

 

One must ask the question - Did n't Norton and Frazier give Ali a tougher time than Foreman did ?

Frazier UD 15 Ali
Norton SD 12 Ali
Ali SD 12 Norton
Ali UD 12 Frazier

Ali KO 8 Foreman


Ali was more than willing to give Ken and Joe rematches. If George had got back into boxing in early '75,it's more than likely that he would have met George in Manilla instead of Joe. After the third Norton fight,Ali knew he'd slipped considerably,so he was wary about having another supertough bout.

 

Tommy, what have you been smoking?

 

Ali had every conceivable advantage in Zaire and Foreman had so many things he could improve on in a rematch. I wonder though if Foreman of the 70's had the mental ability to really learn from mistakes. But if he could, I se a rematch as very difficult for Ali, let alone 10 fights given the fact that Ali went through so many battles in the 70's while Foreman dispatched most opponents quickly.

 

Interestingly, what points Foreman did pile up, he accumulated them when Ali was on the ropes.

When they were in the middle of the ring (or at least off the ropes), Ali was winning handily.

 

If we're talking 10 consecutive matches rather than 10 time-travel resets, Foreman's punches and the rigorous training schedule these matches would demand eventually wear Ali down as an athlete. Probably accelerates whatever neurological problems he developed as well.

From about match #5 on, even the most dispirited Foreman would find his opponent gradually aging and weakening.

 

Ali was more than shot against Holmes, you're disrespecting Foreman greatly by saying that.

 

Fair argument with possibly George in Manila (we can't know for sure I guess) but as for the rest - it's not necessarily valid IMO.

Perhaps Ali didn't hesitate to give rematches to both Frazier and Norton in part because he knew they basically can't come up with anything better tactically. They could just try again to succeed doing exactly what they were doing before and he knew he can cope with that. There were no major new adjustments they could make.

In my view, with George, it was a different story. It was extremely easy to figure out what he should do different this time. He was not going to be a dope in Ali's game again. He would probably try to increase his stamina significantly too and maybe most importantly, he would not be overconfident while extremely motivated.

The Rumble In The Jungle was a great fight and unbelievably huge, fair victory for Ali but didn't it happen because of the specific set of circumstances? It seems to me like rope-a-dope was pretty much the only way Ali could win this fight. A genius move and as a fight fan, I give Ali all the praise in the world for that, but it could work only once unless George was a ****** and he wasn't.

What else could Ali do to defeat him? How do you see the rematch playing out?

 

Also, by no means I want to say that whatever version of George would win the majority of 10 against peak Muhammad.

 

Ali wins all 10, i recently watched the fight again for like the 20th time. And its just remarkable how Ali makes him miss, the whole fight, Foreman just can land nothing significant to Ali's head. He landed some to the body but most shots were bouncing off Ali's forearms and shoulders.

Foreman landed 1 clean punch, an uppercut in the 8th i think, but even then he wasn't close to out, Ali just had his card

 

Only if Foreman was poisoned with a hefty dose of Ketamine.

 

That's correct but Ali's use of the ropes because they were loose allowed many headshots that Foreman was throwing to be missed because Ali was able to lean back far enough to avoid those shots. Had 4-5 of those landed it may very well have been a different fight. As it stands, Ali took more punishment to the body than any fighter I can recall. He certainly couldn't have taken those bodyshots for another 9 fights of that I'm sure of.