The All-Time Greats if they were modern lazy American heavyweights

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Jan 25, 2012.


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  1. Guyfawkes

    Guyfawkes Than who was phone?! Full Member

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    I'd say he showed up somewhat out of shape for some fights, but never really "fat"
     
    Guyfawkes, Jan 25, 2012
    Guyfawkes, Jan 25, 2012
    #16
  2. Conn

    Conn Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    well, he was overweight and undertrained often. i think he was reasonably weight-conscious though, and would diet himself into a respectable shape for fight time.
    i guess he burned off a lot of the fat with all the sex he was having when he ought to have been busting heads in the gym !

    anyway, he coasted in training, and coasted in many of those fights. sometimes he looked pretty awful doing so too. a lot of jab and grab and laying on the ropes, and plenty of mugging around.
    i think guys like Greg Page were inspired by that style - for good, and for bad.
     
    Conn, Jan 25, 2012
    Conn, Jan 25, 2012
    #17
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Dundee said the only fight he felt Ali didn't train properly for was Spinks I.
     
    McGrain, Jan 25, 2012
    McGrain, Jan 25, 2012
    #18
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I bet Dundee is egging it a bit though. However, outside of the Young fight, Ali weighed in between 212 and 226 for the fights in his thirties. That's not a prohibitive gain at all.
     
    McGrain, Jan 25, 2012
    McGrain, Jan 25, 2012
    #19
  5. Conn

    Conn Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    he might say that now but he's quoted in newspapers of the time as saying Ali didn't train much for some other fights, for example the Wepner fight.
    not that anyone needed Dundee to explain that.
    Ali often stated that he didn't train hard for every fight. the variations in his conditioning are quite noticeable.
     
    Conn, Jan 25, 2012
    Conn, Jan 25, 2012
    #20
  6. Conn

    Conn Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    no, but i think he was undertrained as well as a bit overweight. the weight isnt the whole story.
    i think he trained hard for Manila, he must have. but came in at 224. for a guy like Wepner though, he didnt really train and weighed the same
     
    Conn, Jan 25, 2012
    Conn, Jan 25, 2012
    #21
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, his weight varied, and although he was always ready to go a difficult 15 he was no doubt better trained at some times than others. He spoke about this himself.

    "I can't always train as hard as these guys train to fight me. They are training for the biggest fight of their lives. I can't always train for the biggest fight of my life every time."

    But I think calling him the "archetypal "fat lazy american heavyweight"" is accurate.
     
    McGrain, Jan 25, 2012
    McGrain, Jan 25, 2012
    #22
  8. Conn

    Conn Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    more accurately, the 1970s version of Ali was the inspiration for a generation of fat, lazy, TALENTED american heavyweights . proto-type i guess.
    but he had far more success with it than the imitators.
    he was unique in the way that he could fight in a lazy style, and in sub-par physical condition, but still have the determination and wherewithal to always (almost always) do enough to win
    He always had an immense PRIDE when he fought, even if his work ethic and discipline were lacking.
    guys like Greg page and Tony Tubbs and Tim Witherspoon were different - their lack of discipline came with a lack of motivation that was evident in the ring too.
    Rahman, Chambers, and all the recent guys .... most of them don't even seem to have the talent, nevermind the discipline and conditioning.

    So, overall, i think Ali would do well as a "modern lazy American heavyweight". he'd usually find a way to win, might look awful at times, but would look pretty good at times too simply on account of his will and his talent
     
    Conn, Jan 26, 2012
    Conn, Jan 26, 2012
    #23
  9. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    When he was interviewed about what made Ali great, he said it wasn't the training as he wasn't that hard working
     
    PowerPuncher, Jan 26, 2012
    PowerPuncher, Jan 26, 2012
    #24
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Interviewed where?

    On the Ali ESPN special he said he was the hardest trainer he ever worked with, that it was no problem at all getting him into the gym.
     
    McGrain, Jan 26, 2012
    McGrain, Jan 26, 2012
    #25
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I don't think he was lazy at all. In most of his fights he had a good work-rate and moved a lot.
     
    McGrain, Jan 26, 2012
    McGrain, Jan 26, 2012
    #26
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