julio caesar chavez sr in prime vs pacman @140 lbs who wins ???

atsch Chavez might of been landing less and was getting outboxed by the brave Taylor, but even Steele said every punch Chavez was landing they were of the "bone crunching" variety. Yea Manny was faster than Chavez, but please don't come out with this bull**** Manny was faster than Meldrick Taylor. Pacman can't even beat Marquez how in the hell is he beating a close to his prime Chavez? Prime Chavez had the iron chin, power, and pressure. This ain't Hatton.

 

Winning exchanges depends on more than just the destructive capability of the offense, but the ability to integrate it with defense. Pacquiao is much more vulnerable than he throws than Chavez, who is always in balance, maintains a tight guard, and bobs and weaves fluidly between the timing of his opponent's and his own punches. Pacquiao has also shown a distinct susceptibility to inside punches, and that is Chavez's offensive specialty. I fail to see how these facts completely favor Manny.

I'm talking about vagueness when you use terms like "come forward." "Educated pressure" means applying fundamentally sound tactics to pressure an opponent while being defensively responsible; balance, defensive upper body movement, proper punching form, and proper footwork in aligning the lead foot and cutting the ring off. Many of Pacquiao's opponents "came forward" while neglecting some or practically all of those aspects of intelligent aggression. Those are flaws Pacquiao cannot take advantage of against Julio Cesar.

And again, volume alone didn't give Whitaker and Taylor success. Taylor threw conventional combinations with blinding speed to the head and body from a superior height and reach, and he often stopped to trade on the inside with Chavez; Pacquiao's punches are shorter, a bit slower, less conventional (which in other match-ups give him an edge), coming from a lower angle, and leave Manny much more open, making him easier to counter and easier to capture on the inside in spots. Whitaker fought going backwards using expert defensive lateral/upper body movement, and had a much more conventional and accurate arsenal; besides that, Whitaker found himself on the inside at times, and was more than capable of functioning at that range. Pacquiao is exclusively a mid-range fighter.

I agree patterns are important, but in my opinion you're misidentifying them and glossing over vital differences in your comparisons between fighters. Even if one does favor Pacquiao, it won't be mainly because of his stylistic similarities to Taylor or especially Whitaker. And there's no need to get so defensive.

 

No, they have not... otherwise they would be giving Manny very little chance in this one.

I mean seriously, Pac knocking out Chavez ? :verysad ... it simply would never even come close to happening.

Pac ain`t dealing with this.....

http://youtu.be/G91EdPBRKDM

 

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Both men are great offensive fighters but the difference is, Chavez has the better defense, is the better technician, takes the better punch & will not tire or be discouraged from coming forward & we know Pac is not great when made to go back.... & he would be pushed back in this fight, either that or meet the same fate as Taylor & get ruined permenantly.

Fighters have had success vs Pac by coming forward, nobody ever had success vs prime Chavez by coming forward.

 

Bull**** Tazo!
Who the hell ever did that to a near prime Chavez?

Even if you think Whitaker handled Chavez, they're completely different styles and Whitaker outright ran and avoided any kind of real exchanges with Chavez.

I've never seen a fighter with a better sense of timing and distance than Chavez.
Meldrick Taylor attempted to run in circles away from Chavez, and never putting his back to the ropes, still got physically brutalized by Chavez.


The skill level difference between Chavez and Pacquiao is enormous.

Both at their very best, and with Chavez' chin one of the very best in history, I would'tn even give Pacquiao a punchers chance.


Remember here folks, Chavez was two fisted. He guided both his fists with precision laser accuracy.
His straight right hand off of parrying was a thing of beauty to behold.

Chavez would brutalize Pacquiao and stop him before the late rounds arrived.
Reality check......Pacquiao does'nt take it all to well to the body. Marquez even showed that in this last fight. Chavez would take aim and brutalize Pacquiao there (the best in the business at going at the body unquestioned)

JCC KO Pac inside 10 rounds and I dont even see it being competitive.

 

Pac is better than Camacho is what I meant :huh

 

Pac is most vulnerable against natural conterpunchers in which Chavez isn't. So it's counter-intuitive to say that Chavez will have Pacquiao reaching when nothing on his record suggests that ever happens against pressure fighters. And the vagueness in using terms such as "educated" pressure lies in its inherent subjectivity. It rarely ever holds up in most arguments. It's like arguing against how judges should score a fight just because you thought someone got robbed. It's a self-serving proposition.To say that Chavez is always balanced, have a tight guard, et al while inferring that Pac doesn't isn't "fact" but rather conjecture....a generalized one at that. Speaking of generalized conjecture, I'm not quite sure where you get the impression that Pac's susceptible to inside punches when among many of his lauded attributes (besides fast hands, power, determination, frenetic pace....etc) is his his lateral quickness and movement. He's been seen to get "in" there unload, come "out" at a different angle, unload again...rinse repeat. One should logically assume then that he's rarely in an inside fight much less getting into clinches.

And Boga man, someone landing 300 punches no matter how they came about doing it is exactly that.....volume. The number 300 is a "volume" of punches.

 

look morales beat pac jmm beat pac an unjustly dec mab gave him trouble but lost julio cezar chavez brings more to table than all three mentioned naturally bigger than the big three chavez breaks down an takes out pac imo

 

the only reason you can say jc isnt a natural counter puncher is because his agression outshines his countering tendency. he could still counter as good as anybody, he just did it from the point of a full on attack.

 

Strengths Prime for Prime

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-Faster
-Left hand
-Good at jumping around the ring like a gazelle

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-Offensive Arsenal
-Right Hand
-Left Hand
-Defensive Skills
-Cutting off the ring (Ring Generalship/Ring IQ)
-In-fighting (Second to maybe only Duran)
-Chin
-Stamina
-Endurance
-Timing
-Accuracy
-Body punching

 

Well you can say the same thing about Manny too. Give him the opportunity to counter and he will knock you out. That's not hyperbole, that's documented truth. There's a reason why Pac doesn't get many countering opportunities and that's because most of the time he's got his opponents on the backfoot.

I'll break down this fantasy fight into this: If Meldrick and Pea's quantity of punches on Chavez served them well to win or almost win....than Pac's quantity AND quality(power) of punches may well prove decisive against JCC.

 

speed kills, pac will be too fast for chavez...and chavez aggression will be pacs advantage!!!

 

Chavez would have a field day with Pac's wrecklessnes.

There isn't **** Pac does that Chavez hadn't seen.

 

except those times when they didnt give him the back foot, morales, jmm ring a bell?. jc created his own opportunities by forcing you to exchange or get knocked out. just look at jc exchange with hall of famers and see how many punches actually hit him. he didnt just stand and let his hands go, he slipped and countered knowing his chin could handle whatever might catch him. jc, in his prime, could get to anybody, whether you were a ko artist or defensive genius. pac can not get to a fighter who doesnt want to get got.

 

I disagree and I'll tell you why and for a minute put any bias aside. Morales wasn't always countering Pacquiao Pacman was troubled by Erik's jab. Chavez wasn't as stationary as Hatton he did alot of bobbing and weaving. Plus in order to land his best punch the left hook to the liver your opponent has to be open in order for it to land. Chavez also had a vicious right hand a very underrated one too. Chavez wasn't your typical face first brawler.