Controversial statements on boxing that you stand by...

Yeah. but Liston had really long arms and beat Patterson twice so I'm not sure if Wladimir could punch as hard as Foreman.

No-one else is 6'6 & 245lbs and fast like he is, Walcott is too light to punch as hard as Rahman did....dyaknowwhatamsayin

 

:rofl

Early candidate for post of the year!

 

Here is three more.

1. Holmes lost against Witherspoon and Williams. He beat M. Spinks the second time without a doubt.


2. If Holmes was popular like Ali or Tyson he could well have ended his carrer as 50-0...gaining the benefit of the doubt twice against spinks.

3. Hagler beat S.R, Leonard.

 

Sonny Liston is NOT a top 10 heavyweight

 

Not controversial.

 

Yeah I thought not. I just wanted to put it out there

 

That's not all that controversial, as long as you have him at 11 or 12

Liston was a beast & remains one of my favourites, you do know that both the Ali fights were fixed?

 

Get ****ed :deal

 

Wise guys made a killing off both fights, common knowledge I thought :think

 

Beating Cleveland Williams, Folley and Patterson almost doesn't warrant a top 12 place.

The 1st Ali fight wasnt fixed IMO. He was getting beaten up in the first fight. His only success was when Ali was blind. If anyone was trying to cheat in that fight, it was Sonny and his corner.

The second fight, well.....

 

Any reason you're omitting Machen, Valdez and Wepner from his list of notable wins? Liston beat a lot of good contenders not visible on first glance. Also, 2x1st round K.Os of Patterson is very impressive. Let's not forget Patterson deserved to win the HW tourney in the late 60s (robbed against Ellis) and wasn't nearly as easy to finish as some make out...he had to be done early. Charles Liston managed it twice.

 

He got up in the 2nd fight and carried on as well! Fair stoppage IMO.

 

One of ESBs best:

 

He fought on with a broken jaw but couldnt continue with an sore shoulder?

Ali was 8-1 1st time round & Liston was the favourite again for the rematch. They made a fortune out of those fights.

Liston had beaten just about everyone around apart from Ingemar & Cooper, he was probably around 40 by that time & there was no-one else to fight apart from Ali.

They cashed out & took a percentage of Ali's next few fights, I forget how many. Ernie Shavers told me & a room full of people the same thing.

 

Exactly. He was about 40. Also, unlike against Marshall, he was being outclassed. He tried his darndest to get Clay out of there and couldn't.

I agree the odds were fixed second time round.