Historically, why doesn't Rocky Marciano get his just dues?

Seems like people in the know rank him from between 4-8 on the ATG HW list. That's an accurate assessment and gives him his due.

 

Guys like Lewis, the Klitschkos, Bowe, etc. would absolutely dwarf him and almost certainly stop him too.

 

Are you talking about the 6 foot 4, 190 pound Carmine Vingo? That string bean?

Ah, how the legends blossom with time.

 

What is your problem with Clarence Henry, Nino Valdes, Bob Baker? What do they lack in your opinion that prevents them from being respectable, world class, dangerous contenders in any era?



"Generally rated as the best of the "freshmen" who have been attracting varying degrees of attention of late are Roland LaStraza of NY, Rocky Marciano of Brockton; Rex Layne of Jordan; Frankie Buford of Oakland; Calarence Henry of LA, Cesar Brion of the Argentine, Jaack Gardner of England, Connie Rux of Germany - and Bob Baker of Pittsburgh.

Of the lot, Baker shapes up as one of the likliest.

The powerful 23 year old 205lb negro seems to have many of the answers for which the promoters and fans have been so eagerly hunting. He can box, punch, and has proven ability to survive rough going and fight back to win.

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- October 1950 Ring Magazine




Your constant ruthless attacking of Marciano's era, which consisted of him defeating 4 first ballot hall of famers, and a slew of other young big talented fighters who emerged at the top of the rankings, absolutely stenches of bias. Let it go. Marciano's era was better than you think.

 

Archie Moore, Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Harold Johnson, Floyd Patterson, Roland Lastarza, Clarence Henry, Nino Valdes, Hurricane Jackson, Bob Baker, Earl Walls, Rex Layne, Bob Satterfield....that is a good era.

 

Not sure he is considered overhyped by anyone. His name always comes up when discussing the top ten best heavies of all time.

 

Not for a heavyweight division when Moore, Charles, Johnson and Satterfield were light heavies (old ass light heavies). Louis was shot, Walcott was old and carried a ton of losses, Patterson, Valdes, and Jackson (a horrible fighter) weren't even in the picture yet. That leaves a ham and eggers like Layne...

Not the absolute nadir of the division's history but damn close.

 

ESB Classic Forum All-Time Rankings by Division - P4P Survey Updated in October 2011

HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION RESULTS:

1. 1675 Muhammad Ali (52)
2. 1375 Joe Louis (23)
3. 638 Rocky Marciano (1)
4. 580 Larry Holmes
5. 488 Lennox Lewis (1)
6. 462 Jack Johnson (1)
7. 318 (tie) George Foreman
7. 318 (tie) Jack Dempsey (2)
9. 233 Mike Tyson
10. 221 Joe Frazier

First Reply:

 

hes def top ten, but hes always going to be behind those who defended far more often than him.

Perhaps time and place have their bias in opinions - past observers probably weigh him highly because up to his time they'd only had Joe Louis, Jack Johnson and possibly Jack Dempsey for ATG consideration - so against that competition Rocky is at least top three. No wonder old timers think he was so fab.

But when considered against the vast tapestry of heavyweight history we have now, he can be quite easily placed at No 8 or 9 by a totally impartial observer.

Anyone who thinks this little guy with 6 defences that he often struggled to acheive and was very very lucky to stay undefeated and won some fights through mob bribery in can be top five amongst Ali, Holmes, Louis needs to check what decade they are in - they arent in this one!


Another thing that detracts from his acheivements is that theres SO MUCH BULL**** written about him - like that utterly crap quote about his punch having more power than bullets or something. ****ing hell, whoever wrote that, would they really prefer a cap to the head rather than a punch from Rocky? Extreme Idiot quote, it doesnt help his legacy that people wrote extreme hyperbole about him that probably sounded great to some unscientific hothead back in the 1950s but is obviously utter crap when heard by an impartial, more scientifically thinking observer today.

 

The only people who came before rocky that I rate above him are louis and johnson. Top 3 from the first 80 years of pro hw boxing is very impressive.

 

pity that superheavy was ****.

Thats like David Haye beating up Valuev.

 

Carmine Vingo was hardly a super heavyweight. He was a 189 pound beanpole. More Marciano hyperbole.

 

i think my knowhow is letting me down, wasnt there some Primo Carnera fat joke he knocked out? Or was that Max Baer's victim?


yeah the hyperbole is soooo annoying. It just makes you reach for one when someone quotes that stupid ' Marciano punches harder than an armour peircing bullet' quote. **** me, how thick can people be in this day and age to quote that drivel. Surely people who quote that as if its a fact have been bred out by now? I get suprised, mostly on youtube discussions...

 

Yeah its to bad he didn't carry around 40 extra pounds of blubber like today's big fat heavyweights, no he actually stayed in shape and trained for a 15 round fights. And I don't know why everyone keeps mentioning size as a big issue with Rocky, WHO THE **** GAVE HIM PROBLEMS WITH SIZE????