Mike Tyson:Overhyped?

You're making assumptions that Tyson was more ill-prepared against Douglas than his opponents were against him ..... based on what ?

Based on the fact that "they must have prepared hard, it was Tyson".
But there's just as much documented evidence about some of those fighters as there is about Tyson.

Take Tony Tubbs as an example, he was so undisciplined his trainer walked out on him in the week before the fight. He even failed to collect a bonus on his pay check for coming in at 235 or less - he came in at 238 !
The fact that the guy even needed a contractual incentive to get in decent shape, shows how undisciplined and lazy he was generally.
He was also a cocaine user.

Tyrell Biggs was embarrassed in the pre-fight presser when Jim Jacobs revealed that the Biggs camp had called him up and begged him for the Tyson fight because they were scared Biggs would lose to a third-rater before they had chance to cash him in !
Usually that would be seen as silly pre-fight needle shenanigans, but anyone who followed Biggs' career knew it rung true.
Biggs was another guy who had been in rehab for cocaine addiction.
This kind of **** would seriously affect a fighter.

Pinklon Thomas had had problems, problems he brought on himself, distractions, managing himself, managing other fighters, an injury, a divorce.

Michael Spinks had no love for boxing, no wish to fight Mike Tyson. He'd done everything he'd set out to achieve. He took the fight for the payday. His wife had died suddenly in a car crash in 1983, when his daughter was just two. He just wanted to make some money and get out of the game.
This kind of **** will affect a man.


Still, I don't make excuses for any of those guys losing to Tyson. The better man won.

Life is full of problems. For all of us. Things don't always go perfect. Fighters have to deal with stuff too.
It's not just Tyson.

 

Tubbs hires Lou Ferrigno in preparation for Tyson.
Thomas hires Angelo Dundee so did Berbick. Maybe they were just trying to look good on paper?

 

Lou Ferrigno was a great bodybuilder and I love The Incredible Hulk as much as anyone, but I don't know his record as a boxer conditioner trainer. Tubbs was probably not his easiest client to be fair.

Berbick was supposed to have Eddie Futch in his corner again, but didn't want to pay him what he wanted, Dundee came on board less than three weeks before the fight.

Don't you agree that lots of fighters have had bad outside-the-ring distractions and imperfect training camps ?

 

Yes but they also proved my point. Consistently poor preparation and lack of activity is the demise of any fighter, great or otherwise.
Tyson for the most part was having solid training camps under Rooney up in Catskill.

 

I agree with all of that. :good

 

This is something of a revelation.

Any fights in particular that stand out as personal favorites?

 

Moore and Charles had decent campaigns at heavyweight. It's like calling Spinks a LHW. It doesn't apply or work towards your argument.
Walcott like I said wasn't looking old at all. He was in great shape and was outboxing Marciano till the KO.
I just proved to you Louis wasn't completely shot. Louis in that video still could punch, if nothing else.

 

I'm guessing Tyson-Douglas and Tyson-Holyfield :good

 

i was around at the time and he wasn't over hyped at all. he took the boxing world by storm and knocked lots of people out!

 

He indeed made a splash, and it helped his cause a lot that he came around at a time where people were pretty much laughing at the heavyweight division and just slaughtered everyone in front of him in almost Popeye-like cartoonish fashion. It wasn't boxing per se that he made people love. They didn't give a **** about that, it was that he was a spectacle. They flocked to see him not because they thought his opponent had a snowball's chance in hell and they'd get to see a good fight. There WERE no good fights as such for Tyson for so long, he was too dominant. It was like going to see the circus, the fans wanted to somehow be a part of this mystical, animal-like thing that had been thrust in front of them, even if their part in the play was only voyeuristic.


It's only later that we actually look on and dissect him as a fighter, on the same playing field as others we analyze so coldly, with the somewhat jaded and skeptical eye distance and time allow us.

But yeah, at the time he was tits.

 

I loathe Douglas-Tyson. Dude was a complete zombie.

What's ironic though is that I actually love the fights that he showed vulnerability in and gets tagged, such as Bruno I, Ruddock I & II. It feels more dangerous and edge of your seat. I cant honestly remember the last time I watched a Tyson fight pre-Berbick or post-Holyfield II.

Tyson-Holyfield II is actually a spectacle I've rewatched several times over, if only for the drama of the struggle going on in the ring. It's insanely tense and I remember exactly where I was on 06/28/97. The last time Tyson entered the ring as a world-class fighter IMO, and he definitely would never be that conditioned again. I still get worried when Holy butts him and opens the cut in the second round even though I know what's going to happen. As it taking place, I remember getting an enormous lump in my throat. Then the way he comes out in the 3rd Round... :nono :fire

Still hard to believe he OFFed himself like that. Possibly the most infamous event in professional sports history.

After that, it was all downhill and I cant even watch it. He looked absolutely terrible to me thereafter.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRj8-hBlgZs[/ame]

Tyson interview at the end.

 

Me too. :barf

I completely agree with this right here. The Tyson-Ruddock slugfests are my personal favorite Tyson fights, especially the first one. The two baddest men on the planet trading bombs back and forth. I do enjoy Tyson-Gross for it's aesthetic value.

Tyson looked in shape. He shaved the goatee and wore the white towel again. I felt he could have pulled it off with Giachetti back in his corner. He fought cautious those 2 rounds, possibly trying to preserve his energy for the late stanza. The crowd chanting "Holyfield" and then "Let's go Mike", the war was just beginning. Then he gets headbutted again and snaps. Yep, remember it so vividly. It was the last time Tyson came in under 220 lbs. The Botha fight was horrid.

 

nup. on his best night i cant see any heavy staying with him. the man was the complete package.

 

I've never bought into the theory Tyson would look to get himself disqualified. To me it'd be an ignorant underestimation of what it takes to get in the type of shape Tyson was for that fight. He was cut up all over the place and ready to rock. He had the third round in the bag until he completely popped off. After the deduction I'd say was when he really caved and theres no objective defense for it. I think the crowd turning was the result of what everybody watching on television was seeing: For the first time thoroughout the entire ordeal and both fights it became clear that a melting legend was really a heavy underdog in reality, getting grabbed and manhandled, shoved all over the place, butted and cut up early with daunting task ahead. For as jacked and pumped up as he was, he's visibly much smaller whenever they get into a clinch. Holyfield was tougher than nails, far from a power puncher but incredibly physically strong. With a cast iron mandible and incomparable heart. A fine counterpuncher with very physical...tactics.

I dont think people were ready for him to be done and went with their gut on that one. In the midst of a fight like that though, he didnt have time to hear it. This is big boy boxing where if you slip for even a moment, you could find yourself stretched to the count of ten in a heartbeat, even by an unassuming opponent.

To identify a despondent, lazy Tyson is to see him after 1997. Skills completely dropped off the map, sloppy, bloated... Even started looking old in the face. Worse, he was seemingly acting like an assclown at every turn and opportunity. I remember amidst all the Lewis fight hype thinkihg, 'You dont have the skills the back that up anymore'. Really facepalm worthy stuff. And of course he got destroyed and was there for his 30 million dollars.