Interesting article on Dempsey's next opponent post Toledo

That's more likely.

Then again, he probably considered Miske a legit threat (he'd fought him twice before).
Gibbons too.
Firpo proved to be dangerous.
Tunney obviously.

 

Looking back, Dempsey should have faced Wills directly after Willard. He had trained like a fanatic to fight a giant, he was young, fast, agile, and that sedantry, celebrity-polluted lifestyle hadn't set in yet. He would have beat him though the fight would have likely been boring.

The color line, even then, was understood by fans to be an excuse -not an American cultural demand. It was a convenient excuse at that, wasn't it.

Rickard and Kearns both had the recent spectre of Jack Johnson to think about, sure, but they were less concerned about that than they were about milking the title like almost every other champion who ever lived. Dempsey's throne was protected from all live threats, even more than most. That's why his reign was NOT great and no nostalgia can make it so. (And that's coming from a sentimenalist.) Hell, he wasn't even popular until Tunney beat him!

What hurts Dempsey is the same thing that hurts Tunney and Loughren -he publically drew the color line. Walker didn't. Greb didn't. And they were contemporaries.

Now, I ask you, were Walker and Greb less "old-fashioned" or were they just bolder and more confident in their ability to beat any man?

The answer seems pretty damn clear to me, bub.

...And that's yet another reason why Walker and Greb MUST be well over Dempsey, Tunney, and Loughran in any all-time rankings.

 

Writer calls Willard quitter, you think he is right on that? Dempsey had no say in who to fight, promoters drew line, not him. ****, his sparring partners had among them top Black fighters of era. Wills got chance, was ko'd by Sharkey, the Uzcudum.

 

Miske was dying and a 33-1 underdog. No one thought much of Firpo. Gibbons was a legit opponent, the 1 legit defence bar Tunney and we saw what happened.....

 

Dempsey and Kearns publically withdrew the color line statement within a month or two, if I remember rightly. In fact, I think they claimed they never made it.
Still, it doesn't matter either way, the real issue is he didn't fight Harry Wills.


Was the color line thought to be an excuse by everyone ?
There must have been some audience that its rationale was supposed to be acceptable with.
Otherwise I can't see how it would even be thought as an excuse worth making.

 

There are many instances I've come across over the years from the 20s where the press and the public were clamoring for a champion to fight a rightful black contender and the champ's color line was condemned as a transparant excuse.

It was an excuse worth making because you wanted to hold on to the title to get rich and some guys you want to avoid because they may beat you. Using "policemen" was another way to avoid dangerous guys.

Also, in half the USA at least, there were enough who did buy it, at least institutionally. The common fight fan, though, he just wanted to see a good fight. Did he root for the white guy? Sure! So what!

 

33-1 underdog ? And the article McGrain posted had him down as one of the top 3 contenders.
That shows how highly rated Dempsey had become with the win over Willard.
I doubt the punters thought Miske was dying.

 

Yeah, but as I understand it, that was Rickard's rationale for not being keen on blacks fighting for the heavyweight title.
The boxing game was becoming legitimized as the opinions and feelings of the broadest numbers across the mainstream and the authorities, not necessarily the knowledgeable boxing fans, were what mattered.
No one wanted "another Jack Johnson" situation. Riots, and race stuff becoming the focus. Blacks sure as hell didn't want that either.
Even the British government with their imperialist concerns of empire put out statements against mixed prize fights.
Outside of boxing fans' wishes for the best fights there were fears and concerns that another black heavyweight champion would kill the sport.
Why else did Joe Louis's management, 20 years after Jack Johnson, have to issue statements declaring how different he was from Johnson.


And, let's face it, Dempsey's championship fights were being sold to people who weren't knowledgeable fans, and heavyweight championship matches were becoming places for society celebrities to attend, and front page news.

On the part of Kearns and Dempsey, I take the color line as just an excuse to bypass another good fighter if a lesser fighter can be found.

But on the part of Rickard, I think he really didn't want to risk having the boxing business eclipsed again by the trouble a black heavyweight champion might cause.

 

Not every single 195 pounder...just a fat one named Willie Meehan.

 

Conn, let it be known that after the "dying" Miske was kod in 3 rds by Jack Dempsey in Sept, 1920 Billy Miske went undefeated in the next TWENTY Bouts, koing Fred Fulton, Willie Meehan,beating Charley Weinert, Jack
Renault, Bill Brennan amongst other top heavyweights of the time. His
Brights Disease was apparently in remission for two years during this time.In Dec,1922, Miske's streak was broken when he lost a close decision to the tough Tommy Gibbons. He , two years later died from this kidney disease in 1924. What a great movie, the life of brave Billy Miske would
make...Hear this Hollywood ?

 

If memory serves, he could barely walk into the ring for his last fight against Brennan, KO'd him and died 7 weeks later. He was the real deal. It seems like he might have been sick in the lead up to the Dempsey fight. Dempsey even said in his autobio that he was doing his sick friend a favor and tried to take him out quickly because he was frail.

 

That's right. I don't think the Gazette was alone about that either.