Ruslan Chagaev v. Joe Louis

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Conn, Feb 2, 2012.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Baer was a shadow of himself when Louis destroyed him.

    I have absolutely no doubt that Chagaev's mobile two-fisted style and technical guard would cause Carnera absolute fits.
     
    McGrain, Feb 4, 2012
    McGrain, Feb 4, 2012
    #31
  2. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Does he look that bad to you? It was only a year after he won the title. I know he lost against Braddock but maybe Louis and BRaddock were all wrong for him. Braddock is underrated
     
    PowerPuncher, Feb 4, 2012
    PowerPuncher, Feb 4, 2012
    #32
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Chag was a very good technically sound boxer.

    Not up there with the likes of baer, schmelling, walcott or charles but at worst he'd have found himself number 1 contender at some point in louis's reign therefore i'd say he would have gone down as a top victory of joe's.

    However I can't see him stopping chag. He was only stopped once and that was after taking a whole of flush shots from someone with tonne's of leverage on him.

    Louis wouldn't hit him as frequent nor as hard as wlad did. Fairly wide decision but no stoppage imo.
     
    lufcrazy, Feb 4, 2012
    lufcrazy, Feb 4, 2012
    #33
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    ...
     
    McGrain, Feb 4, 2012
    McGrain, Feb 4, 2012
    #34
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No. But nor does he look like the man who ran the biggest reign of terror in the division between Dempsey and Louis. Baer was famously hot and cold. This is one of his cold nights, and also the only night where he quit. In 35/36, he was beaten by the 12-13 Davies as well as Louis. Thinking about it, he could certainly give Chagaev a very good fight, but I'd stand by my statement that Chagaev would be "the best of the rest or thereabouts."
     
    McGrain, Feb 4, 2012
    McGrain, Feb 4, 2012
    #35
  6. Ramon Rojo

    Ramon Rojo Active Member Full Member

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    Chagaev by KO in the midrounds



    Tatar slickness > black slickness
     
    Ramon Rojo, Feb 4, 2012
    Ramon Rojo, Feb 4, 2012
    #36
  7. MadcapMaxie

    MadcapMaxie Guest

    Physically Baer was in the shape of his life for the bout with Louis but mentally he was really all over the place and completely psyched out the night of the fight.

    Baer as most know barely trained for the Braddock fight and injured his hands in the bout, thought not taking anything away from Braddock.
     
    MadcapMaxie, Feb 4, 2012
    MadcapMaxie, Feb 4, 2012
    #37
  8. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Chag muderz da ***.
     
    The Mongoose, Feb 4, 2012
    The Mongoose, Feb 4, 2012
    #38
  9. Conn

    Conn Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Max Baer injured his hands quite badly in 1935, in an exhibition a few months before the Braddock fight. I forget who he was going against, it wasn't the Levinsky thing, but against someone he really hurt his hand. It was reported at the time in the newspapers.

    I think the hand (or hands) were badly aggravated in the Braddock fight, one doctor said the X-ray showed fractures.

    Then Baer was rushed in to the Louis fight just 3 months later, insisting his hands had healed. Somehow I doubt that.

    I've heard he needed cocaine injections in his hands to fight that night, which sounds likely.

    I'd agree with McGrain that he wasn't himself at all for Louis, even just on the likelihood that he had badly injured (not just 'sore') hands.
    On top of that, he'd been a notorious party animal and dedicated his life to chasing tail for the last 2 years. I mean, that's the kind of lifestyle that might get you in trouble against Buster Douglas, nevermind Joe Louis.
     
    Conn, Feb 4, 2012
    Conn, Feb 4, 2012
    #39
  10. Conn

    Conn Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    As for Chagaev, to gift him some credit he's perhaps on a par with guys like Godoy and Farr and Nova, which isn't a bad thing at all.
    And I'm being generous here, I don't know that his record quite justifies it.
     
    Conn, Feb 4, 2012
    Conn, Feb 4, 2012
    #40
  11. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Louis owns him and chops him up and breaks him down could be by 3rd rd. but my bet is before the 5th
     
    Bummy Davis, Feb 4, 2012
    Bummy Davis, Feb 4, 2012
    #41
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    You're underating Chagaev's mobility there Bummy. He's not lightning, but he's plenty organised enough to stay away from Louis for more than three rounds. His game will be moving and throwing the straight-left hand without a sell, I don't see him being tricked early doors. Louis will have to walk him down, like every other mover he ever faced.

    You're also underating Chagaev's durabilty, possibly. He took a huge beating from Wlad.

    I'll pick Louis to win in similar circumstances, Chagaev pulled by the corner between the 9th and 12th.
     
    McGrain, Feb 4, 2012
    McGrain, Feb 4, 2012
    #42
  13. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak banned Full Member

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    I've watched Chag from when he was an amateur star, something that few of Louis' opponents ever had the benefit of being. I dare say, that at his best, he was a more sound boxer than any Louis opponent, probably more sound than Louis himself who had some nasty habits and some very predictable footwork. Were Chag around in the Paleolithic era that Louis' roamed, he would have equally dominated, tho not with the KO percentage, and have avoided being stopped by that fighting abacus, Schmeling.
     
    Seamus, Feb 4, 2012
    Seamus, Feb 4, 2012
    #43
  14. Conn

    Conn Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Firstly, what does "amateur star" have to do with it ?
    (..... and should amateur boxers even aspire to 'stardom' ?)

    Is it merely the fact that Chagaev fought in the 21st century that makes you feel he was "more sound" and "superior" etc. ?
    You rarely back up your statements, or try to enlighten others with what it is that makes him "better", "sound" etc.

    You seem to display an extreme form of the same "era bias" you attack in others, for fighters of the last 30 years (since the 1980s) against fighters previous.
     
    Conn, Feb 4, 2012
    Conn, Feb 4, 2012
    #44
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I would actually agree with Seamus that Chagaev would be more sound generally than most Louis opponents. He was a consumate technician.

    However, he was also, stance aside, pretty ordinary physically. I think Schmeling might have stopped him in a 15 round fight.
     
    McGrain, Feb 4, 2012
    McGrain, Feb 4, 2012
    #45
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