So where does Hopkins rank now all-time?

Hard to take credit for it, most of that was taught to me overtime by very, very fine boxing minds.

My father, a Futch disciple, dissected James over the McCallum fight, while I listened in awe. I've never forgot what he said, and since I heard it, I see it when I watch James too.

I get my Hopkins thoughts from training with him, watching six of his fights ringside, and not being able to look away. I WISH I myself was that thoroughly excellent.

James rewrote the book on big man slick, and Hopkins applied the boxing textbook in a very interesting way. No doubt both men are PhD's, but in as undergrads, they majored in vastly different areas.

 

He headbutts and low blows all but constantly.

Even I have to admit it.

It's just that pro boxers tried very hard not to ***** about the other guy fouling. You acknowledge everybody does it(I have my own bag of tricks), and you box on.

Even his bad reaction to return fouling is veteran theatrics. It sucks, its not all that respectable, but its the game, and every time you let something sink through and ruffle your feathers, you lose something. Way better to just box, and as Mr. Futch always said, "just on with it."

 

Hopkins started at a higher weight, he started at LHW and drained to make MW, while Jones started at LMW and was a small LHW. Hopkins was taller and rangier than Jones and was in no way smaller.

Calzaghe arguably was no-one in 02, allot of people considered him no1 at 168 and at least no2 at 168 at that time. He did offer Hopkins career high money for Hopkins to tool him off and instead fight for 100k against Hakker was it (may have got the name the name wrong).

If you can't see the motivations in Hopkins ducking I don't know what to say. The man knows his limitations

 

Toney vs Hopkins is one those dream fights people can discuss many times and still find arguments in favour both fighters.

 

I think the fight would stink, personally.

Hopkins wouldn't throw the right often, which means Toney wouldn't throw the right often, which means it would become a battle of footwork, between a balls of the feet guy and a lead back foot guy. Considering neither made many mistakes in their favorable areas?

Low scoring, low punch output posefest. I think picking a winner doesn't say much, and when styles clash that horrendously, its hard to determine who was actually better. If I had money, I'd bet draw.

 

But I still would have watched that fight gladly

 

Fights like that make me insecure.

I just can't fathom operating at that level.

 

These posts have been a pleasure to read...thanks for the insights on Hopkins and Toney (and Futch).

 

From 93 onwards hopkins has never once outweighed jones in the ring, never mind at the weigh-in. So twenty years of their careers completely goes against your premise on jones being the smaller man.

Well if you believe hopkins ruled for a decade whilst being weight drained you hold him in much higher regards than I do.

So he didn't fight joe when he was a nobody, instead he fought him when he was p4p number 3 and the goat smw. A case for ducking there is pathetic.

That's the thing, as a 46 year old man he'd have plenty of motivation to duck but instead he continues to break records and write history.

He fought the best lhw in tarver, the best mw in wright, the best smw in joe, the best mw in kelly. He then got shelved and didn't do much before returning to fight the best lhw in pascal, twice and the number 1 contender in dawson, twice.

All this whilst in his 40's after securing a legacy and retiring.

Infact it's so blatantly obvious it needs no more explanation.

Credit to you, you reeled me in and I took the bait. Clearly you are trolling and I fell for it. Well played squire.

 

For sure he did, in all area's. One of the big improvements was total dedication.

 

All of that is irrelevant to 'Hopkins never ducked anyone it's a myth' because he ducked prime versions of Joens and Calzaghe, that's irrefutable.

He called Jones out and got offered a very generous 40%, yet he ducked it. Calzaghe called him out and he was offered the money he requested, then ducked it

He's taller/longer than Jones and Calzaghe, weighing in the 170s for MW and 185 for his LHW fights and never been the smaller man in the ring. He wasn't drained but he was a big middleweight, where as Jones was a blown up MW. Wasn't Jones offering a catch weight anyway? Hopkins knew he couldn't win

 

We get it, you're trolling and I fell for it - you had me going.

 

So i'm not alone???

There was me thinking everyone was mocking me for falling for pp's game and all along you've been by my side equally fooled!

#you and me, always, and forever#

 

Call it trolling but it doesn't change the fact Hopkins turned down career high money against the 2 biggest talents of his generation while they were in their prime and went onto sign 100k fights against nobodies. He may have fought them later when the fights were meaningless, still ducked them at the time. Just like when Chavez finally gave a rubbed match to Frankie Randall when he was shot, same thing

 

Some things never change, eh?