Ken Norton verus Joe Louis' opposition...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Seamus, Feb 5, 2012.


  1. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Which of Louis title opponents do you give a better than 50% chance of beating Ken Norton?

    Abe Simon? Billy Conn? Paychek, Musto, Burman, Buddy Baer, Mauriello, Pastor, Roper, John Henry Lewis, Farr or Mann? Which of these really has a better than 50% chance of beating a prime Ken Norton?

    The obvious tact would be to suggest that the bigger hitters here would lay out the supposedly china chinned Norton, but did Simon or Buddy Baer really possess the boxing skill or just overwhelming power to replicate what only George Foreman achieved during Norton's prime?
     
  2. MagnaNasakki

    MagnaNasakki Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You have to give Max Schmeling one helluva shot. He was very good, very craft, and an underrated puncher.

    You'd have to favor Max Baer to blow Norton away. Buddy was worse, but his heavy hands and strength should also make him a favorite.

    Thats about it, really. Norton should beat the rest, with Walcott being the best candidate to outbox him.

    If we're counting guys who Louis lost too, as well, I give Marciano a 50-50 and I think Charles pulls the trick, as well.
     
  3. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    The Schmeling that Louis fought as a title defense was old as dirt and well past it. Max Baer was not a title defense. I am specifically refering to the bum of the month club.
     
  4. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    If you're talking about consecutive title defenses, then the punchers' collective odds go up. We may not know who will catch him, but it's more likely that somebody will.
     
  5. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    I'm not really interested in comparing Norton to Louis but Norton relative to the competition Louis faced. Head to head, each as an individual fight, not as the string of fights that Louis fought.
     
  6. Ramon Rojo

    Ramon Rojo Active Member Full Member

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    None of them. Norton is better than anyone Louis fought.
     
  7. Hydraulix

    Hydraulix Left Hook From Hell.. Full Member

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    What about Tony Galento? He had the punch to put Norton out, I reckon..
     
  8. MagnaNasakki

    MagnaNasakki Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The punch, aye, but not the ability.

    Took more than a punch. Biggest thing to look for with a puncher taking Norton is skill at cutting the ring and strength.

    Norton is bigger and stronger then Galento, and yards better. Tony was pretty mediocre as a contender, Norton was just leagues better.
     
  9. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Norton's chin is underrated. Foreman was an animal and took him out. No shame there. The Garcia thing was early in his career, a fluke that was later avenged. Other than that, it was late in his career until he started getting cold cocked.

    Let's not forget this is the man who arguably beat Ali twice.
     
  10. MagnaNasakki

    MagnaNasakki Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Tony Galento is also a lazy, one dimensional tub of goo.

    Shavers and Cooney were huge men, bigger punchers then Tony, and knew they could, if need be, rush Ken at the bell, force him backwards and batter him till he stopped twitching.

    Ken is stronger than Galento, and if they got close, it'd be Galento on the ropes.
     
  11. Bill1234

    Bill1234 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I agree, many make it seem as though Ken would fall over from the wind of a hard punch.

    His chin was solid enough, I don't think there is much shame in getting knocked out considering he got hit clean by arguably the top 3 hardest punchers (Cooney, Shavers, and Foreman) in history. Norton usually needed some time to really get into his groove and all 3 of those massive punches rushed him before he properly was warmed up and Norton got knocked out. Against 2 of them he wasn't even prime.

    I think Norton would do fine against Louis's opposition. I see Walcott giving him a lot of trouble though. Master boxer with a lot of power and accuracy could spell problems.
     
  12. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    So the Garcia loss was "too early" to hold against him, and the Shavers loss not even a decade later was "too late"? So when did Norton even have a prime??

    And why was the Garcia loss a "fluke" just because it was later avenged? You make an issue of Norton's "prime," yet ignore the fact that Garcia was totally washed up by the time of the rematch - yet even a washed up Garcia managed to buckle him a couple of time.

    To answer your original question, I would favor Baer(Buddy), Simon, and Walcott over him.
     
  13. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Primes by definition are less than a decade. Otherwise there is not a whole lot prime about them. The Foreman KO was firmly in his prime, but Foreman KO'd a lot of very good fighters.

    My issue is with the flippant presumption that Norton falls before every decent puncher who got in front of him.

    So, Buddy Baer and Abe Simon are going to beat a guy who deserved two wins over Ali. I don't see that at all.
     
  14. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Even if you make an excuse for every single time he was knocked out, he still didn't show that great of a chin otherwise. He was buckled a couple times even in his rematch with (a washed up) Garcia, and was also staggered by Randy Stephens. Even if his chin wasn't pure glass, it was still only so-so at best.
     
  15. tommygun711

    tommygun711 The Future Full Member

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    Also staggered by ledoux and cobb.