Ali beating Foreman was a more incredible performance than Frazier beating Ali

Good to see you around Simon, sorry for slagging you off on here a few years ago...and good call on the Ali-Foreman fight. Did you think the 'Foreman as unbeatable monster" was more of an American viewpoint?

 

I go with the consensus here. Frazier's was the better ORTHODOX performance,but Ali's was the most brilliant ! Not only winning,but doing it the way he really was n't supposed to.

 

True,imo. Ali was 32 years old when he fought Foreman who was perceived as the alltime puncher of the heayweight ranks.

Ali turned the form book on its head.[and I won some dough].

Ali v Frazier pitted an Ali who had just 18rds of boxing in 3 .5 years a man who had an inconclusive tko win over Quarry,and a shaky, last minute ko over the blundering, but dangerous Bonavena.

The 1971 Frazier was the consensus number one heavyweight, and at 27 ,he was in his prime .

 

Performance or accomplishment?

 

Ali's victory most definitely because he was given practically no chance to win. Foreman destroyed the two men which gave him his toughest fights and this, along with his size , strength and punching power spelled doom for ali on paper and in the opinions of most.

Fraziers's victory was was not as impressive to me because he was fought a man who was away for 3 years and was not what he was before. Inspite of this I still feel that ali won because he out punched frazier 600 and something to 300 and something.

Their was dispute as to who won superfight 1 but not the rumble in the jungle because ali knocked foreman out.

 

Ali beating Foreman was far more impressive..

1. Ali was disadvantaged in his fight with Frazier due to the layoff..

2. Ali beat Foreman who had just absolutely anniolated his conqueror.

 

This is how I see it.

One can hindsight it to even them out, and Ali IS the more impressive scalp, but the fact of the matter is, Ali wasn't at his best, and Foreman was hardly ever better.

Add to that just how badly people thought it would go for Muhammad, and its clear what the more amazing achievement is.

 

Frazier performed better in FOTC the Rumble, but I think he had proved himself capable of this type, and kind of performance in fights leading up to the first Ali go-round. In contrast, no one really anticipated that Ali would lay on the ropes and then out fight Foreman in the manner that he did.

Look at it this way...Ezzard Charles may well have performed better against a faded, but still dangerous Louis than Holyfield did against a still highly regarded Tyson in the first fight. Which performance is considered more incredible?

That's why I picked Ali-Foreman.

 

There is no question Ali over Foreman was the bigger win ....

 

Certainly my most favourite ever win since I've been a boxing fan.

 

YOu had an older man , past his best days defeating an undefeated, highly favored monster ..... the other fight was terrific but even Joe's biggest fans, myself included, have to admit Ali was not 100% after a three and one half year layoff and two rushed comeback fights .... that being said it was still a terrific ALi Joe defeated, just not the absolute best ..

 

The Ali of 1971 was a better fighter than the Foreman of 1974, in my opinion anyway.

 

No denying that,Conn. Although Muhammad was a little better in 1974 than in '71,as he was in better shape and sharper.

All about style,as they say. Even the FOTC version of Frazier would have been battered by Foreman,and the '71 Frazier may well have still outpointed the Zaire Ali.

 

I agree with what he said.

 

Its funny because at the time I was a Big fan of Foreman and knew a lot less about boxing, some of the older guys with much more wisdom than me would say this Foreman is a wide swinging amateur, a lot of power but a smart gut lets him swing until he starts breathing heavy then open up on him.

I thought Foreman was superman with his pretty record against 97% guys with low % of wins...Now I remember Quarry pulling the trick against Big mac Foster and Shavers and Lyle and a few other big slow punching types but I loved this Foreman and the way he destroyed Frazier (somewhat faded) but the old guys were right they seen these types fighting head-on in a shoot-out and they saw then fight the smarter guys with a plan. I have since seen many of these Foreman types, powerful, somewhat crude and they walk into the ring vs someone with a plan and the myth evaporates.

Dundee had a plan, let Foreman shoot his load and when he gets drunk go in for the kill...Now Ali was not the best of punchers but he had the wisdom to know when Foreman was spent he was done.

Ali vs Frazier was a Super fight and many thought Frazier would win although the minority .....I think most of the Fans for Ali-Foreman except for a few of the old wise sharp men thought Foreman could do it to Ali like he did to the 2 men who beat him Frazier and Norton but Ali and Dundee knew Foreman was very beatable with a plan.