Artie Levine vs. Sugar Ray Robinson. A long count when Sugar was down?!

sadly hhascup doesn't post here anymore, I'd requote again this post of his :

Artie Levine was d only man ever 2 KO Walker Smith Jr. At least he lived a relatively long life .

I 4 1 support d long count claim and 4 what it worth so does burt bienstock :

 

Sugar did an interview with LIFE magazine in 1950, the fight was mentioned:

"The first thing he remembered was the count of "seven." Sick and reeling, he staggered upright at nine and stalled instinctively for time. He did it craftilty, like a man with all his senses instead of a headful of cobwebs, wasting a full six seconds as the referee wiped off the gloves. He touched gloves with Levine, an outdated but useful device; that wasted seven more seconds. In all, 22 seconds elapsed before he began to fight again. He survived that round. He was in trouble again in the ninth and it looked bad for Sugar Ray. He sprawled helplessly in his corner with Gainford busily applying Vaseline and adrenaline cloride to his wounds. "How'm I doing?" He mumbled woozily. Said Gainford, "You're getting licked." What clicked inside Robinson's subconscious with those words is a matter for a psychologist. He came out stiff-legged and bleary-eyed but never stopped punching until big Artie was lying prone on the floor- a knockout victim with only 19 seconds left in the fight. Next day Sugar Ray could remember nothing of either the conversation or the knockout."


Sounds like Leonard-Hearns. "You're blowin it son!"

 

Days after the Robinson/Artie Levine [long count], I was in Stillman's gym,
and heard trainers and fans standing around talking about the fact that
Robinson was on the canvas for 17 seconds or so,after Levine dropped Robinson. These trainers knew or saw that controversial knockdown. I just
listened to all this scuttlebut. My mom knew Artie Levine's aunt, and I saw Levine fight a couple of times in NY, prior to this fight... Artie could HIT...

 

What does this sort of information do for you guys? Does is lower your estimation of the fighter at hand? Or do you see it as one of those things that's bound to happen once in a while when fighting this sort of opposition on a routine basis, no matter what the level of fighter?

 

i think its very underplayed that srr as a welter routinely faced and beat middleweights.
Its a good way to ruin a welterweight.

 

true , but just as much underplayed r d facts that Artie Levine still KOd him and he still had height advantage over all of his opponents @ MW .
D only time he fought a really bigger man he got stopped despite that man was not a puncher which led 2 picking him as a relatively safe opponent , yet he proved not safe enough . And WSJ's opponents @ MW during his WW reign were usually far from great (all of them actually , except of LaMotta&Levine himself whom were not far from greats but still not greats) , and more importantly and correctly , small MWs themselves , Graciano whom was 1 of his very best opponents during that period was a small MW whom sometimes weighed as low as below 152 4 his fights and was well past his prime when he fought WSJ , he was d man b4 d man b4 d man b4 d man WSJ beat 2 take d MW title .

 

Ridiculous commets on the maxim and graziano fights

calling lamotta far from great
lay off the angel dust its harmfull stuff

 

Y ? WSJ got stopped , who knows , maybe under a colder climate Maxim would have been able 2 expend just enough more energy than he did and still beat (if not stop) WSJ . Maybe d scorecards as we know them from this fyte r/were simply unfair ? and by unfair i don't necessarily claim that Maxim should have been ahead (maybe he really was) but maybe just much closer than they were .

Regarding LaMotta , I first used d word usually instead of all but u made me sharpen my argument (d change is now within brackets there)

 

For what it's worth, Sugar gave me boxing tips, and also mentioned one day Levine hit him hardest

 

what were they ?

At least he didn't lie like most do when they tell about who hit them d hardest.
Lyle,Ali,Holmes,Toney and almost every1 lie about it , same when they rank their opponents .

 

So many, ff, ('N THEY ALL WORKED) hard ta know where to begin. After watchin' me spar for months, he showed me how to lengthen my jab 'n get the most power outta my hook ('n double 'n triple it to the head 'n body) by throwing it as a hooker/cut, not conventionally; how paralyzing a straight right to the heart can be; 'n that defense was more about setting traps than reflexes.