Liston over Marciano - Can Anyone Sanely...

Marciano beats him, and by ko. Liston had the stare, the ex-con background, all the things reporters emphasized to scare fans. Marciano could fight better all around.

They were not far apart in size. I get sick of people who rank Sam Langford as one of greatest heavys of all time saying Marciano or Dempsey were too small.

 

You can't. Rock has the stronger resume and the better career?


Head to head, I'd bet my house on Liston, and I'd probably pick Sonny to beat more great heavyweights.

But in terms of what they accomplished in their careers, Rocky definitely achieved to a higher degree.

 

Two spot-on posts.

 

Marciano, Frazier, Foreman, Dempsey, Lewis, Johnson, Walcott, Charles, W. Klitschko, for starters.

So in other words, he beat one HOF champion and only two other top 5 contenders? That's arguably the weakest resume of any HOF HW champ.

 

No he didn't, he actually got up at the count of 8 or 9, but the ref inexplicably waved if off.

More like knowing he was one punch away from permanent semi-blindness, seeing as he was coming off major retina surgery and probably shouldn't even have been licensed to fight.

Probably something to do with the former group being all punchers, and the latter group lacking real power.

 

Liston looks better on film.

Rocky comes top in any other category.

 

Based on achievement Rocky is better of course because he's undefeated.

But if they fought each other Rocky would be in a world of hurt.

 

Liston...as the champion...QUIT WHILE SITTING ON HIS STOOL IN MIAMI IN 1964...no quit in Rocky Marciano during the Walcott fight in 1952...or in the 2nd fight with Charles in 1954 in which he had his nose split open DOWN TO THE BONE...AND BEGGED THE REF NOT TO STOP THE FIGHT...because he was worried about losing the title...and of course he stormed out and kept the crown with a KO...Rocky beats Liston on heart alone...

 

You can't rate Liston ahead on an ATG heavyweight list (unless purely H2H) but i'd take him head to head with confidence.

 

I run with Rocky, but with no great certainty, Liston had some mental fraglity about him where Rocky had none, Sonny looked a tough sob, but Rocky WAS a tough sob, Liston, on his day, could beat anybody, and so could Rocky by sheer will, if Rocky gets inside the jab, serious violence would ensue, but that would not be easy.

 

I see Marciano having a very tough time despite and perhaps because of his monster will. This is not a fight where that is gonna help him.

Liston has a reputation for being mentally fragile in some quarters. But it doesn't hold up. Liston is too often confused with Tyson.

Marciano is very strong, but he isn't moving Liston backwards. Liston will move him backwards and that presents a problem for Marciano because he needs leverage and forward momentum. Once Liston starts confirming that he is the stronger beast in there, he's gonna start standing Rocky up with the jab and setting up bombs. Rocky off balance takes punishment.

Grinding fighters who rely on will and endurance are fodder for Liston. The way to beat him is to jab him, turn him, counter him. Rocky can't do that.

His only chance is to outmuscle, outslug, or outlast him.

Who will take the other's shots better? Liston had a great chin. Rocky did too, but if Walcott and Moore could drop him, Liston will too. I don't see Marciano dropping him. Liston isn't going to concede much of anything to Marciano and that will register like a strange new world.

 

The Ali fights were shrouded in controversy.
When was Sonny born? 32? 29? You can say this about many fighters but he got a late start. Brought along right he may well have been a top contender by the middle fifties.
The Rock is a true HOF'er but a prime Sonny matchup is not right for him.
Liston may have brutalized the Rock IMO.
Of all the Rock's opponents, who compares to Liston?
LaStarza was a slick tough fighter but you wanna throw him in against a prime Sonny?
Granted I'm a Liston semi-nuthugger but I'd bet the house against the Rock in a PvP matchup...

 

Why do people always say that Rocky loses on cuts in hypothetical fights? The split nose against Ezzard Charles? He was never stopped on cuts, why does he suddenly become susceptible to them in these imaginary fights?

 

whilst most people are aware that Liston would batter the Rock, and its obvious that Rock stayed in retirement after Johansson lost his title because he knew it, Rocky is the greater acheiver. Just because he would lose P2P against Liston, its shouldnt be forgotten that he had several characteristics that Liston never had that made him a legend.


Its a bit like Roy Jones and Calzaghe - Roy Jones would batter Calzaghe any day in his prime, but Calzaghe is the much higher acheiver at his weight category - although Calzage and Marciano are in different leagues of greatness of course (Maricano, undisputed champ v Calzaghe, minor title holder) and I am in no way tryign to say Cal is near the greatness of such undisputed champs of yesteryear.



In defence of Liston quitting against Clay - if the Rock was faced with someone who he couldnt touch, the best heavyweight in history, and was getting schooled, and then tore his shoulder too, theres a fair chance he would quit- you'd be stupid to fight on with torn ligaments, and Marciano certainly wasnt a stupid man.
So the Rock would likely quit too, lets not pretend hes superhuman.

 

Hold your horses there sonny jim!

You aren't seriously saying calzaghe achieved more than jones are you?