Liston over Marciano - Can Anyone Sanely...

Longest jab in heavyweights vs shortest jab in heavyweights. Are you sure you don't what to reconsider?

In sports, when in doubt, always pick the knee grow.
In robot building competition, when in doubt, always pick the Jap.

 

Liston doesn't make my top ten heavyweight list. I wouldn't deny he could be an excellent boxer and he had legendary power, and a top five HW jab, nor would I slag off his only two elite wins, over Patterson. He was also likely a serious cheat, with questionable heart, fairly limited speed and overall athleticism, a good but not great resume, and overall cannot compare with the best in terms of resume or longevity. I have Ali, Louis, Holmes, Frazier, Lewis, Foreman, Tyson and several others, including Marciano, ahead of him, and without any hesitation. I think he's grossly overrated, especially H2H, and I don't even particularly rate his super chemical punch, rumoured to be used on several occasions, and against far lesser fighters than a green Ali, whom he was already so heavily favoured over (Can anyone here imagine the **** Tyson would take for trying to blind Buster Douglas to win? ). Liston is an apologist's wet dream. There's plenty to work with, there.

Greatness: Now comes in good flavour and raspberry!

 

Rocky in both areas... I'm really not sure how it could be viewed otherwise.

 

Pretty much sums it up except I'm not sure I'd call Folley, Machen and Williams great fighters but I would call them terrific fighters and all were in their primes .. add the fact that Liston was about thirty pounds of muscle heavier and had fifteen plus inches in reach and head to head goes out the window as well ..

 

Head to Head? The Liston who ko'd Williams twice, stops Marciano imo.

 

Listen looked ferocious and had an nice arsenal but something tells me Marciano's heart and power and stamina get him on the inside and Marciano's off Rhythm power put Liston in pain.

Both would dish it but Rocky's low stance and awkward crouch allow him some defensive shelter while administering some of his own crunchers. For me I was never really impressed with Williams as a Big puncher and he was KO'd in 3 by Bob Satterfield before the Liston fights so he was someone who could be KO'd

Mike DeJohn could hit but not in the big leagues. Leotis Martin had some power vs an Older Liston and Sonny folded but Leotis was not an elite banger.

I think Marciano's Big heart,subtle defense and power makes a difference here...IMO Liston suffered from the bully syndrome, he could give it but did not like taking it....he did quit twice vs Ali

 

Bingo, Co-sign.

Liston is made out to be this mythical monster but the uncomfortable facts are that he had his jaw broken by a middleweight, struggled with a bean stick, got laid out cold by a ham and egger (old but nevertheless was Tyson out cold after xxx flush number of punches by Williams or Lewis ?) and flat out quit not once but twice by a green and totally unproven Clay.

Ultimately he quit on life too when he administered his own demise while chasing the golden dragon.......

This is leftist liberal re history apologetic writing at its finest similar to the Kennedys, dirt bags in reality but heros in the manipulated media.

 

hi. clarification -i mean calzaghe acheived more at ONLY SMW than Roy did. Roy acheived 2 or 3 times more than Calzaghe overall. tbh, Roy could easily have chosen to do what Calzaghe did and defend 20 times at SMW, but Cal could never in a month of Sundays do what Roy did and be a HW champ and dominant LH champ.

thats how i am comparing it too Liston/Rocky. Liston was way too big and strong for Rocky to beat more than once out of three, but Rocky def acheived more.


tbh, if Ali had arrived 10 years earlier (ie born earlier, not fighting as a pre teen pissed about his lost cycle lol), then obviously Rocky would be just another tough contender, and the same for Liston too. Sad but true.

 

Liston was having his 8th fight when he fought Marshall he lost a split dec.

Marshall was a pretty big middleweight, given he weighed 180.5lbs for that fight. atsch


Seven months later, Liston floored him 7 times in 6rds for a stoppage.

Liston was an old man when Martin kod him .Sonny was winning the fight but ran out of gas.
Liston was made out as a mythical monster because he took out the reigning champion inside 1 rd in two fights for a total of under 5 minutes ring time.Liston had beaten 5 rated contenders, when he got his title shot.
That ham and egger was rated no 4.

Liston was feared as a top drawer puncher ,because he was one, with over 72% ko 's
Your revisionism is hilarious.

 

What exactly are you trying to say here, Ren ?

While Calzaghe wasn't on the Rock's level, he was undisputed champ, not a minor title holder.

Where to begin with this piece of speculation ?

 

All three reactions I had. As most know, The Rock tried a comeback when Ingo was champ, but the injuries were still there and the will to train like a monk wasn't. Those were the reasons he remained retired, not some ogre of Liston.

In regards to Liston's injured shoulder, there were many who did not believe it was injured including ref Barney Felix. That his face and pride were taking a pounding remains a fact.

 

Liston could give it. For sure. But he wasn't too good at taking it. Marciano could do both.

 

I'd say that Rock didnt want the hassle of getting beat by Floyd and Liston, which he must have known was likely. Now whilst Floyd had the advantage of youth and Marciano would be sensible to avoid him (which he may well have done), Sonny was Marcianos age and you would think Rocky would be happy to go up against a fellow oldie if he really deep down felt he was better than him, it would surely be an easier win for him to batter a fellow old man than try to keep up with the lively Johannson or fast Floyd.

oh yeah he eventually was undisputed, but only for a short while, unlike the Rock who was undisputed and took on all comers. I didnt want anyone to think I was saying Cal was as good as Rocky, they are in different leagues.

sure, it was speculation, but I wanted to add more to my post so I put it in. Fair play in criticising it.



Look fair play guys, I was being highly speculative in the post about Marciano. I am only second guessing why he stopped when Patterson got the title back, if it was about injuries /lack of interest that he stopped his comeback then I bow to your greater knowledge. It just struck me as odd the timing of it, it was almost like he got worried by Floyd and Liston.

This doesnt change my view that Liston would beat Marciano 2 out of 3 fights, Rock simply gives away too many advantages that of too big a dimension, apart from his edge in heart and fitness.

 

Perhaps you can mention an actual fight where Rocky took on a much larger, stronger, harder punching man with a fourteen inch reach advantage and in his physical prime that gives you any basis for making such a Hail Mary of a prediction , hero worship aside ? With all respect in the world to Rocky he had no more heart, power or stamina than Joe Frazier .. the difference is that Rocky never met his George Foreman based on the luck of the draw at the time .. the rest is simply fantasy ...

 

He did KO 6"4 Carmine Vingo and beat many men that were Liston's size and larger, Sonny was slightly over 6" but remember it was 179lb Marty Marshall that beat Sonny and broke his Jaw and Leotis was 6" and 199lbs when he flat KO'd Sonny