Liston over Marciano - Can Anyone Sanely...

Solid Post :good

 

Again with this competitive nonsense.

Rocky had competitive fights because he wasn't as dominant as liston. Whilst I do appreciate rocky fought better opposition prime for prime, Liston was supremely dominant in his victories which is why he, in your opinion, was able to psyche opponents out before they stepped foot in the ring.

As I say, I don't rate him as high as you, so I don't think he had this super human power to scare everyone he fought bar ali.

Ofcourse the rocky fight would be competitive, rockt threw punches in bunches and had an iron chin so he would bother liston in the early stages if he took chances to get beyond the jab. But once he's in close he's gonna be exchanging hooks with sonny and he wouldn't have a speed advantage nor a power advantage. No-one can take a plethora of shots from sonny liston, no-one. Eventually the toil would tell and rocky would succumb to the power and strength of liston. Not to mention when they're not exchanging Liston would be pounding with his jab.

I don't know why you put a big emphasis on liston having to punch down on an opponent. He had no issues with patterson who's better defensively than rocky (imo). Infact his punches seemed much more monstrous because of the leverage he could put on them. This wasn't like against ingo when he got caught by a perfect counter and never given chance to recover, he was bombarded and obliterated and that's because of his size.

IMO if rocky stays on the outside he loses a wide decision because Liston has a superior jab. If rocky comes inside he eventually gets stopped because Liston hits harder and just as fast as rocky did.

If this was in the early days of boxing than I'd probably favour Rocky to outlast any heavyweight providing he could learn to box safe for the first 30 rounds or so because his stamina and conditioning was amazing considering how much he put into every shot. but on a limited rounds fight where, as the aggressor, he has to engage then he can't realistically be favoured against sonny.

Ofcourse the fight never did and never will happen so any opinion is as credible than the other but i think styles favour Liston here.

 

Liston was indeed a heavyhanded puncher but you did not have to be a dance master to survive against sonny at his best - just as with Rocky. There is no guarantee Liston gets the front foot here. marciano drew you into him nobody kept him on the outside -ever.

Liston would not be landing unanswerd combinations, marciano would be fireing back at each turn, halting momentum instantly. without forward momentum full power is not acheived. Liston would still hurt marciano but rocky hurt all the men he fought too. rocky was good at landing first.

rocky fought off the other mans leads, he would want jabs to come at him, always ready. power and strength can be nuetralised against an awkward opponent.

 

Sometimes because we've never seen something happen we assume it couldn't. Just because Rocky was never muscled or beaten down we think it could never happen. But he never fought anybody Liston's size excluding an old Louis. Back to the op's question... Probably not. Unless you rank h2h a the most important feature of a fighter. And maybe not even then.

 

You're starting to see sense now, rocky will force his way in. Once inside the two will be exchanging heavy shots. I think everyone can agree this is a likely scenario that rocky will get beyond liston's jab and force them to exchange.

The question is, when liston and rocky are exchanging heavy shots who do you think will come off worse? The great small man or the great big man?

I know who i'd bet my money on.

 

Liston did not fight anyone as unusual as marciano either. rocky and sonny fought within roughly the same times, marciano was an elite heavyweight from early to mid 1950s and Liston late 50s early 60s they did not miss each other by much. Oposite ends of the same era where nothing much had changed. overall most heavyweights were 6 foot 195lb throughout. Marciano sucsesful with disadvantages in size against better oponents and Liston was sucsessful with advantages in size against lesser opponents. would you say the smaller guy who beats better fighters is a certanty to lose to the bigger guy who beats up lesser guys smaller than he, not all of whom came to fight?

 

the one who was knocked out more times in real life.

 

the one with better championship form?

 

You're in trolling mode today I see.

I guess you believe rocky comes out on top trading against louis, foreman, lewis, frazier, tyson, wlad, holyfield, dempsey etc.

I can't be arsed with the conversation any more. You're right: rocky beats everyone in history because he never lost and they did. Keep It Simple, Stupid.

 

Well liston also best a guy who was bigger in the form of Cleveland Williams, a heavy hitter albeit one with the chin of a middleweight. And while we can argue that's Liston opponents we're lesser (and I agree that they were) they were also closer to their prime. But to answer the question no its not automatic that just because Sonny is the bigger man he'll pummel marciano. In fact we never really saw Liston get up off the canvas to win or go a full 15 like he might have to against the Rock. So nothing is certain.

 

Don't forget how he had that something extra, that conditioning, that will to win at all costs ... that extra something that warriors like Joe Louis, Joe Frazier, Sam Langford and so many others lacked that defies all logic, physical and stylistic disadvantages aside ...

 

lol

or is it cos they is black.:rasta

 

Marciano has a strong resume but the man was not invincible, no man was. I just think at championship level marciano was more proven and stylisticly problematic for Liston.

 

If I have been clever it was only subconsciously!:good
I would give many elite champions a 60-40 chance of winning fights against Marciano. Joe Louis, Ali, gene Tunney maybe even Holmes. Just not Liston even though I would expect Liston to start favourite.
getting back to the match up I just think rocky would be awkward and land punches on Liston - it would be a hard fight for Liston, IMO his hardest.