Booth: "What David did was a defensive reflex" - German Boxing Fed wants Life ban

If you're speaking about British self defence law then you will find that the pre-emptive self defence claim does NOT apply if you had opportunity to exit the situation. Haye had several of them. The question is, if the Germans decide to prosecute, do they view self defence in the same way as Britain, if they do it's not looking too clever for Mr Haye.

Swinging a tripod when he could have exited is a definite no-no. The bottle and Chisora could also be problematic for Davey Boy, as he could have simply backed away.

 

So if I pull a gun when I am no longer under any apparent threat, aim at Don Charles but hit Adam Booth in the shoulder then it's all right because I acted in self-defense and it was in the heat of the moment, is that what you're saying?

You guys are hilarious.

A weapon is a weapon. To the court it wouldn't matter if it was a tripod, baseball bat or a shotgun.

 

It's all ****ed up, but this banning **** is stupid. Fine the fighters and lets move on to some bigger fights.

 

no he didn't. he's in the middle of a crowd with a guy storming toward him.

it's completely unreasonable to expect him to turn & run like a woman on the benny hill show.

there are numerous examples of case law that prove you are talking absolute bollocks on this one...not least the aforementioned steven gerrard incident.

 

you have a funny definition of "no apparent threat". there was a massive brawl going on & haye was clearly the target.

& pulling out a concealed handgun would be very different to picking up something nearby in the heat of the moment to keep people at bay. so no..."a weapn is NOT a ****ing weapon". :nut

& as you say adam booth was grappling with charles so haye would be in the right to defend him too...as john terry got off for bottling a bouncer who was kicking the **** out of jody morris because that too was a reasonable defensive action in the eyes of the courts.

 

That's generally not how self defense works. I know the UK is different than the US, but I have a hard time believing the common law would justify that self defense. We derive our law from yours, after all. In the US, when an assailant ceases to be a threat the continued use of force is not legally justifiable.

Additionally, there is often a duty to retreat. Accepting a fight in a bar does not constitute self defense.

Taking a brief look at Palmer v. The Queen, which appears to describe self-defense according to English Law, it's recognized that continuing an attack after the danger is over is not justified. I think in the case you briefly described, if accurate, demonstrates a jury that simply decided to let him go. That doesn't mean that's what the law is, though.

What does this mean for this case? Nothing, because I don't know **** about German law.

 

The goon you refear to as Don Charles was going for Adam Booth. Haye hade to try and do something about it.

 

it's not like accepting a bar fight.

the only way haye gets out of that situation is turning around & running like a sprinter. that is not a reasonable expectation.

he made no forward movements at all. he defended himself against a guy who had threatened to assault him numerous times & who was charging toward him.

no court in the world sends him down.

at what point during that wild melee would you have considered the "danger to be over"? :huh

it's not like david left the building then came back for rd 2.

 

I personally thing David is a tramp, watched the video, a professional fighter resorting to trying to bottle a fighter who'd just been through a 12 round fight, I could pass his words by as nonsense but come on like trying to bottle someone! - on an additional note Chisora is not far behind with the slap and the spittin in walds fave

 

He made a very definite forward move when he lunged forward with a tripod. Spin that how you wish that was an act of aggression. The threat from Charles had been neutralised and he had no need to act as he did.

 

was charles grappling with booth?

if so...haye would have been in the right to defend booth if he considered his safety to be in danger.

:good

but anyway...what happened when it escalated is completely unimportant. people are fixating on it when it is not what will be considered by any court.

 

I'm only describing the law in general and responding to your Gerrard cite. Turning and running, if it's possible, is sometimes the legal duty of a person being attacked. There are lots of exceptions, especially when one is in their home, but that's generally true in the US.

As for this specific situation, who the **** knows. I can't really make out what's happening in the video. I just wanted to point out that continuing an attack against someone who is no longer a threat is not legally justifiable self-defense. I don't really know if that's what happened here and I don't know if Germany follows that policy.

 

got to agree with think and axe, theres noway either should get banned for life. loads of boxers have done worse things in and out of the ring. prime example Tyson.

 

running away is NOT a legal duty. there are no circumstances where running away could ever be a legal duty. is that what a bouncer should do when a clubber assaults them? "i'm sorry mister club owner but that man hit me so i ran away". horse****.

frankly you are just talking a lot of bollocks.

the whole thing is over in 30 seconds. there is no "continuing the attack". it was a melee.

your example refers to leaving the scene then coming back to re-insitigate violence for revenge or any other reason. like when that tweedy guy went to his car & took a golfclub out of the boot before returning to the fight.

it does not refer to what happens in a continuous melee...can you honestly say that at any point david haye instigated violence when "the attack was all over & no sort of peril remained"?

no. thought not.

 

I am a first year law student. In many ways it means I don't know anything about the law, but I can assure you that (in the US at least) running away may be a legal duty if retreat is possible.

Like I said above, I wasn't responding directly to the Haye/Chisora situation. If it's true that Haye, as mentioned above, attacked someone on the ground with a weapon then he may very well have gone beyond self defense. I couldn't really tell what was going on in the video so I'm not going to tell you that's what happened.