The all things technical thread.

Depends on the fighter. Fighters have improved their conditioning by changing from old school to modern conditioning atsch Plus it's scientificly proven

 

They might be still blowing even with traditional conditioning depends on the fighter and their proportion of fast and slow twitch fibres.
You and Flea can keep on being ignorant :

http://www.sportsci.org/news/news9709/hatfield.html

 

Was the routine/training plan you mention for Holyfield before the Douglas fight designed to bulk him up without losing speed?

In his book he mentions adopting different conditioning methods before the 1st Qawi fight but that didnt seem to involve any weightlifting or plyo.

Imo Holy's stamina didnt improve as he got bigger, it got worse

 

I think losing stamina as you increase muscle weight is expected

 

I always say thumb down because I think it encourages the elbow to be more correctly positioned.

I'd probably encourage a fighter to throw thumb down, but if he was more comfortable throwing thumb up, and his technique was otherwise sound, go with it. I've found it's a bit like being left or right handed, one just feels more normal.

I reckon the hook is the most subjective of shots. Here's a gif of the so called "greatest left hook of all time" and for me it's far from perfect IMO, but hard to argue with the result! Thumb up from what I can see.

This content is protected

GIFSoup

*his right hand is in no mans land
*he pulls pack his left arm a little
*he doesn't get his elbow up high enough
*he doesn't open his hips and sit down on it much

But he knocked his man out with impeccable timing and accuracy. I love the little head flinch SRR makes after the shot in which he anticipates the counter, just in case his man didn't crumple.

 

I thought for a left hook it should be thumb down when at closer range to drive through with the elbow. At longer range its thumb up & use the bicep more

Does that make sense?

 

I have a few things to add to this. there seems to be a long term argument between thumb down or thumb up.
i am a firm believer in thumb up. the mechanics of the shot become a lot harder to throw thumb down. thumb up means you can hook close and further away.
most **** hookers you see at amateur level are persevering with thumb down and end up without the elbow behind it at all and no structural support so it is a **** shot.
my last bit of evidence. ask anyone to name a fighter with a great left hook.

typical examples, tyson, jons jr, trinidad etc etc. i challenge you to find a great left hooker who throws thumb down. they might talk about doing it but watch the videos and none of them do! FACT.....That is my biggest bit of info on this thread, biggest secret divulged thumb down hook is bull****.

someone mentioned david haye for a breakdown.

i will break him down defensively. there seems to be an illusion that haye is elusive and has a great defence. this stems form his performance against valuev and wlad. mainly wlad.
in many threads recently people have cited hayes defense as another one of the reasons he would beat chisora. not so imo

against wlad, haye stayed out of range being 'elusive' confident in the knowledge wlad would protect his chin and only throw a maximum of 1 or 2 shots at a time. wlad has never come forward and thrown lots of punches in range as he is protecting his dodgy chin and is always thinking of taking that little step back to protect himself. additionally as wlad is throwing his punches from so far away, you get that little longer to see them coming and avoid them.

staying out of range and moving your head knowing you only have a jab to avoid is not defense. this coupled with rarely throwing punches and when you do onyl 1 at a time is not boxing. it is definiely running. whittaker had defense as can be seen by the fact he made people miss and then hit them back repeatedly. all davids moves were made were 6 inches out of his punching range and he was content to stay there knowing he could do nothing back to wlad.

if haye was fighting someone who got into range and threw lots of punches / combos he would get hit a lot! ruiz hit him a lot with the jab. as early as round 2! chisora if he survived the first few rounds wwould get in close and land a lot on haye and break him down. imo

 

Yeah I just watch boxing instead of reading a biased article. It works for a lot of sports, no doubt. It does not work for boxing, the evidence is there rider IN THE FIGHTS.

Anyway, this is a technical thread, not a conditioning thread. You obviously have an agenda, leave it outside :hi:

 

Thank you Slip. There is a modern misconception that running away and unnecessarily moving your head is 'defence'. How can it be defence of you're well outside of punching range with nothing to defend?

 

As for modern s&c, two of the fastest fighters of the past few decades, Roy Jones and Mike Tyson, never used it, they were strictly old school.

When they did? Oh, yeah they were blowing out of their arses within a few rounds atsch I imagine the scientific evidence doesn't mention that?

 

that was me not slip. but I will take your plaudits.......